NEVADA STATE MUSEUM & HISTORICAL SOCIETY LAS VEGAS, NEVADA THE LAS VEGAS I REMEMBER INTERVIEW WITH SENATOR RICHARD BRYAN February 13, 1998 Taken At KNPR Studios 5151 Boulder Highway Las Vegas, Nevada TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 2 MR. ANDERSON: This is for The Las Vegas I Remember. I'm Tim Anderson. February 13th. And our subject today is Senator Richard Bryan. I have a real short list for you. SENATOR BRYAN: Yeah, no problem. MR. ANDERSON: If you could just tell me the story that you told me about nuclear testing. You were, what, a junior high student? SENATOR BRYAN: Well, there was no junior high school in those days. I was in the eighth grade at John S. Park Elementary School. And in the late winter, early spring of 1951 the atmospheric testing program began. It began with an enormous sense of community excitement and pride. I think in part we were fascinated that we were going to be part of the 21st Century, that this was the technology of the future. I think there was also a sense that we were in the middle of the Cold War and this was important technology for us to understand. World War II had concluded just six years before, and the atomic bomb had made it possible for that war to have ended sooner than otherwise planned, having saved hundreds of thousands, perhaps, of American casualties. So there was a lot of excitement. I was too young to fully understand the business implications, but in retrospect there was a tremendous opportunity for the business community to development the TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 3 Nevada Test Site with all of the infrastructure, which involved millions and millions of dollars, more appropriately tens of millions of dollars. And Las Vegas in 1951 was a community of about 25,000, maybe 26,000 people, and so this was an enormous business opportunity as well. Military personnel were going to be stationed out there from time to time. People would be flying in from the lab, so that was an aspect. But for those of us at John S. Park Elementary School, that was far beyond our range of experience. But as the first detonation was planned, we became involved in a little science. Having had this atomic age instilled in us from the time of the end of the war with these Weekly Readers that talked about atomic energy as the wave of the future, and energy that's too cheep to meter, and every home will have it's own reactor, that automobiles and airplanes will be propelled. This was something that we were not totally able to comprehend as youngsters but we'd heard a lot about this. And now all of the sudden this testing is coming to us in Nevada. And so one of the first things that we were asked to do -- and we were told in our little science classes that the speed of light travels at a very high rate, 186,000 miles per second, something like that, I can't recall, but the speed of sound travels much slower. And so we were asked to in effect calculate the distance from our home to ground zero where the TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 4 detonation was. And that could be done by first, when we saw the light from the detonation illuminating the horizon, and it did, the entire horizon was illuminated when the blast went off. And then there was an intervening time in seconds before the seismic impact. Well, the light, of course, traveling at the speed of light, the seismic effect traveling at the speed of sound, we were able to calculate the distance between our home and the detonation. And that was something that we kind of were assigned to do as part of the new excitement and the science that was involved there. And so we got up early in the morning, and families did. My parents got up. We were not early risers at 5:30 in the morning, but we all got up early and we looked out. In those days, I mean, there was a fairly clear line of sight out to the north, and we saw there and we participated, and there was a lot of discussion about it. Initially because we didn't know too much about what the seismic would have, there was some property damage, not extensive, but it was windows, clearly up towards Beatty, the old Exchange Club, which was much nearer to ground zero. And later as these tests continued, there was a sense that there were more optimum conditions and times to do this sort of thing. There was a lot of excitement in the community. I remember many years afterwards on Fremont Street, there was still an Atomic Liquors. There was an atomic hairdo, Atomic TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 5 Market. I mean, we were kind of the center of it. It's kind of hard to give a full sense of what this was all about, but there was a lot of excitement about this. And in fact, a couple of years later when I was in high school, the Las Vegas High School annual, the Wildcat Echo, we did the entire cover of the yearbook with the nuclear cloud and the blast, the mushroom cloud and the funnel of fire that sent that cloud thousands of feet into the atmosphere. And so it really was kind of the dawn of a new era. It sounds pretty naive and unsophisticated, but I don't recall anybody, certainly not when I was in grade school, not in high school, saying, "Gee whiz, is this stuff safe? Is it okay?" I mean, looking back on it, America was more naive. And of course, we were youngsters and far less sophisticated even than our parents or adults that were in the community. But I don't recall any nay sayers. There may have been some, but I don't recall any. MR. ANDERSON: I have a great piece from Larry Johns who represented the test site radiation victims. He lays out the whole chronology of that. He's about your age. SENATOR BRYAN: Yes, yes. Larry and I were in high school. His brother, Alan, is just a year younger than I, and their father was a teacher at Las Vegas High School. MR. ANDERSON: That's right. He was a history teacher. TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 6 SENATOR BRYAN: He was a history teacher. MR. ANDERSON: He was telling me about the Rosenberg execution. Of course, they were involved with atomic secrets and betraying the country, and he set up the whole Cold War sort of mentality. And this is going to be a great segment of the whole production. SENATOR BRYAN: Well, I mean, he's right. I mean, we weren't completely -- but remember the Korean War was on. I mean, we had gone through that period when the Chinese crossed the Yalu River and all of a sudden what looked like a victory and the troops being home by Christmas turned into a disaster. And it was an incredible feat of arms that were able to extricate our troops from the Chosin Reservoir, and MacArthur was relieved from command shortly thereafter. And, no, it was a difficult time. And of course, it had only been two years before that that the Russians had stunned us by an announcement that they had detonated their first. Well, I don't think they announced it. We determined through our own research capability that they had successfully detonated an atomic bomb. So this kind of shattered the myth that we were so far ahead and the Cold War was very much upon us. So in that sense, there was a lot of anxiety, and this nuclear testing program, nobody questioned it. MR. ANDERSON: And that's why he said, when you have TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 7 the death of these two people connected with these secrets, that made a big impression on people that you don't talk badly about this, because people who do are, number one, suspected, and then if they're found out to be in any kind of cahoots with anybody, we'll kill you. SENATOR BRYAN: Yeah, that's interesting. I must say that I don't think in the eight grade that was so much our perspective. I think the history of the time speaks for itself. And I'm sure Larry is right in putting together the chronology. But I mean, for us it was kind of this excitement of this atomic era and it was coming to us in Southern Nevada. We were going to be playing a major part of the Cold War. And there was just a lot of excitement in the community. Months and years later as this program unfolded, the film footage that was shown on every news reel in America was when they were trying not only to show the technology in terms of how big we could make these and how effective, but what the effects would be on communities. So they built a little model city out there, which had frame construction, brick construction. They had mannequins in houses, automobiles, the kind of things that you'd find in a typical American community. And the mannequins were taken after the blast and displayed in the department stores on Fremont Street. And I can remember seeing that. And the film was just dramatic. TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 8 You could see the seismic effect peeling the shingles out of roofs and seeing the collapse of some of these structures. That was all on film footage. And looking back on it, that apparently they chose not to classify because we saw that. Maybe that was to impress us, which it certainly did, as to the enormous impact and what this weapon was capable of doing to those who were our adversaries. MR. ANDERSON: Now when the test site got going out there, thousands of people came in, didn't they? SENATOR BRYAN: Yes, they did. I mean, the first thing that I recall was the enormous construction activity that occurred out there. So some of the local contractors, some whom are prominent today, got very sizable contracts because there was nothing out there. This was not as if we were an expanding and existing infrastructure, we were building a community out in the desert which required all of the support services in terms of water supply, effluent road network, and of course, because of the technical nature of this testing, an enormous scientific infrastructure which a community would not require. Initially the blasts were as a result of bombs being dropped by a B-29. But soon, for reasons I think that are pretty apparent, they began to construct the huge towers. So the construction of those towers was an enormous expense, laying the cabling. So companies like REECo, Reynolds Electric and Engineering TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 9 Company, and EG&G -- Edgerton, Germeschausen and Grier -- by the time I graduated from high school in the mid '50s, those were names that were well recognized in the community as being part of the test site. And there was a tremendous labor demand. The construction crafts were always very busy. And in later years, particularly in the early '60s, there was a lot of labor unrest. I mean, there were strikes at the test site, and that kind of dominated the news in the early part of the '60s up until maybe the mid '60s, and then agreements were entered into. And I must say I don't recall any work stoppages of any consequence thereafter. These were also very good paying jobs. They provided a substantial per diem. And I don't recall whether you were compensated portal to portal but, at least initially, nobody lived up at the test site. This was all a commute. Later, you know, there were facilities for people to live at the test site through the work week. I mean, they didn't live up there with their families. And I became an employee of the test site years later when I graduated from college, went into the Army. And in January of 1960, I was employed up there. And I was employed in a very nontechnical part of REECo which had the housing and maintenance contract. Very large contract. They provided all the building, the meals, the maintenance of the site. And my responsibility was to assign people who were coming up there TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 10 for particular programs their billets. And there was quite a pecking order. I mean, the labs which in those days were Sandia, which was one of the main ones; LRL; LASL, Los Alamos Scientific Laboratory; the AEC people. They clearly were in the top rank of the pecking order. And their billets or housing, they had individual rooms. Some of them had individual trailers. None of this was luxurious, but compared with those who were part of the maintenance contract at REECo -- whenever I stayed up at the test site, and I didn't do that very much, we lived kind of like in a barracks facility that reminded you of enlisted quarters for those of us who have been on active duty. MR. ANDERSON: Now, were you in town in 1970, late 1970? SENATOR BRYAN: Oh, yes. Yes, I was. MR. ANDERSON: Do you remember the Baneberry incident? SENATOR BRYAN: Yes, I do. This is the one that vented? Yes, I do recall that. By the 1970s, there was a bit more sophistication involved, and I think concern. But remember, 1963 the atmospheric test ban went into effect and so the nature of the test site changed dramatically. We were doing the underground testing at the time. Yes, I remember the Baneberry. And there was some concern and worry about what the venting meant. Remember this predates Three Mile TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 11 Island, predates Chernobyl, so I think we need to put this into some context. I can't recall all of the headlines, but yes, there were some health and safety concerns raised. MR. ANDERSON: Yeah, that's the part Larry Johns represented. SENATOR BRYAN: Yes. This is all from recollection, but trying to put it into perspective. It wasn't the kind of concern that you see in the '90s where now we look back at some of the experiments that were done on people that we did not inform them, that we were radiating them to test, but you know, none of that. But clearly that was much different from the early 1950s when we kind of blindly accepted this as a wonderful thing. I think there was at least then some recognition that when these things vent, we get radiation in the atmosphere and that could have some health consequences. MR. ANDERSON: I was talking to R. Guild Gray. I'm sure you know him. SENATOR BRYAN: Yes, former superintendent of schools. MR. ANDERSON: Right. Now, you were in school at this time, so I wonder if you can confirm this. He said that during the test site and this huge influx of people and their families, of course there were 10,000 jobs out there, not all at once, but I know that there was quite an influx of people very quickly. But the schools were on double sessions and it TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 12 was more than he could keep up with just like today. SENATOR BRYAN: Yeah, I think that's true. Clearly we could see the community was growing rapidly. In the fall of 1955 Rancho High School as a separate, free-standing school opened up and that was the second of the public high schools that opened up in Las Vegas. Yes, you could see that. Las Vegas was clearly growing, both the tourist infrastructure in terms of new hotels to some extent on a very small scale compared to the growth that we're seeing now, that was occurring. And yes, the test site was a big part of the growth during that period of time. What it did too was it changed the kind of people who were moving in. Because a lot of these people were very highly educated, technical people. Where I first saw that impact, I didn't see that initially in high school. I'd like to tell you that I did. But basically we had families who were here because of Nellis, so we had some students at Las Vegas High School whose families were here because of their military presence. We had families who were here because of the test site obviously, but that was not something that you discussed so much in high school and to what parents were doing. We weren't into that. I'd like to say that everybody kind of stood back and gave a thoughtful perspective of the change in demographics of the community. That was not the kind of discussion that one had in high school, and I TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 13 think anyone who tries to recreate that is perhaps filled with more of an imagination than a realty about what the discussion was. But where I saw it for the first time was in 1963. I had come back from law school. I had a military obligation. And I joined the 427th Civil Affairs Company. This was a unit that had a very high percentage of officers because the Civil Affairs Company was, in theory, if we got into a wartime situation and we were in effect conquering enemy territory, we set up the infrastructure for running the community. So there were people who had a lot of technical skills. I would say maybe even a majority of the officers in that unit work at the test site. They were many who were young like I who had military obligations to do. And so these were a lot of technical people. There were people who had chemical engineering backgrounds, physics, science majors. Oh, yes, there were some of us that had grown up in Las Vegas who had those obligations. But that's when I met a lot of test site people. And there were other people who worked at the test site who were not necessarily scientific, but they were part of the technical support group, part of the building trades group. And that's when it first hit me what an enormous part of the community it was. And I met a lot of those people. And nobody talked about anything classified, but that was a big part of our unit. TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 14 MR. ANDERSON: Let's see now. Ralph Lamb succeeded Glen Jones, did he not? Was that the successor? SENATOR BRYAN: No, Ralph Lamb would have succeeded Butch Leypoldt. MR. ANDERSON: Oh, he was after Butch. I thought Butch was after him. SENATOR BRYAN: No, no. I think Ralph Lamb was followed by John McCarthy. I think it was Lamb, McCarthy, and John Moran, and then Jerry Keller. MR. ANDERSON: So Glen Jones was in the '50s. SENATOR BRYAN: Yeah. As a matter of fact, I know that. I'll tell you Glen Jones was defeated. I can tell you the year he was defeated. Glen Jones was defeated in 1954, it was when I was in high school. Glen Jones was defeated in 1954, and he was defeated by Butch Leypoldt in 1954. George Dickerson had defeated my father who was running for district attorney. And Dickerson and Leypoldt ran on a ticket that was a reform ticket, and their commitment was to close the Formyle which was a brothel owned by Eddie and Roxie Clippinger. And indeed, in January of 1955 when they took office, they did that very thing in a rather dramatic raid and closed it down. The only remnant of that is Sam's Town. The bar at Sam's Town is called Roxie's. MR. ANDERSON: Now Formyle, where would that be located? TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 15 SENATOR BRYAN: Formyle would be right about where this station is. It's about four miles out of town. MR. ANDERSON: Oh, this would be it? SENATOR BRYAN: Yeah. Yeah, this was Formyle. And when we were in high school, we were very much aware that there was a brothel there, and people would go out there. There was a lot of talk. Of course, in those days there was prostitution in Searchlight as well, the Crystal Club, the El Rey, which is all in Clark County. So Clark County at least tolerated it on a semiofficial basis. I don't know whether legally it was authorized by ordinance, but it was certainly tolerated and it existed. And that became an issue during the campaign. And Glen Jones was the sheriff during a good many of those years. In fact, my earliest recollection of who the sheriff was in Las Vegas was Glen Jones. That would date back, I believe, to the '40s. I don't know his exact term, but certainly the late '40s. 1954 was an election year for county officers and Butch Leypoldt won. And then Butch Leypoldt was appointed by Governor Sawyer to the gaming control board. And when he resigned, Ralph Lamb became his successor. MR. ANDERSON: I'm trying to get Ralph Lamb to talk about this. SENATOR BRYAN: Ralph could tell some great stories. TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 16 MR. ANDERSON: I know and Peg Crockett called him for me. SENATOR BRYAN: Yeah. MR. ANDERSON: She called him for me because she was here the other day -- SENATOR BRYAN: Yeah. MR. ANDERSON: -- and telling us stories about Howard Hughes and all kinds of other stuff. And she said, "Well, would you like me to call him?" And I said, "If you would." SENATOR BRYAN: Yeah. MR. ANDERSON: But I don't think he's going to. SENATOR BRYAN: Well, Ralph Lamb was for many years one of the most powerful political figures in the state. I mean, the sheriff of Clark County is still a very powerful position. But I mean it was very, very powerful. And Ralph Lamb was certainly a major power. I know that in 1966 when the Clark County public defender program was established in a position that was to be appointed by the county commission, I was a young deputy district attorney at the time. I was 28 and had an interest in that appointment. And one of the first people that I contacted was Ralph Lamb to get his support. I am grateful that I received it. His support translated into support. His brother, Darwin, was on the county commission. And Ralph Lamb was a very powerful individual, and he was very helpful. TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 17 MR. ANDERSON: I hear that Ralph was sort like one of the last of the old time Western sheriffs. Is that true? SENATOR BRYAN: Yeah, I think so. A part of that is the imagine. I mean, somebody ought to do a film on the Lamb brothers. That's truly a remarkable family. MR. ANDERSON: I'd love to. SENATOR BRYAN: They were just an incredible family coming out of Lincoln County. And of course, Floyd Lamb was a chairman to the Senate Finance Committee for many, many years, one of the most powerful men in the state legislature when I served, and he had been in the legislature for many years. He had represented Lincoln County prior to reapportionment, and was the only state senator from Lincoln County. And Mahlon Brown was the only state senator from Clark County. After reapportionment, Floyd moved to Las Vegas and made a very successful transition, was elected to the state legislature from Clark County with the expanded delegation. And he was a very, very influential and powerful legislator, did quite a job. Not everybody agreed with Floyd, but Floyd Lamb and Mahlon Brown and Jim Gibson were among the real heavyweights in the state legislature, and they all served on the finance committee. MR. ANDERSON: That's the place to be. Ralph Lamb, I'm hoping he will consent to speak with us. I hear this story of him turning the Hell's Angels back TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 18 at the border of Nevada and California. Do you recognize any of that? SENATOR BRYAN: Well, I recollect a story. I can't authenticate it. Don't know whether it's true or not. But I mean, yeah, I think Ralph certainly has persona. I mean, he was a product, is a product of the Old West. He is a rancher, cowboy. He was not a dude. I mean, Ralph is the kind of guy that is as comfortable on a horse as behind the wheel of an automobile. He wore Western clothes. I mean, he was a legitimate -- I say was. I speak as if he's gone. He's still very much alive and very active. He is an authenticate Westerner. And before he was sheriff and after he was sheriff if you saw Ralph Lamb, the chances are you'd see him in Western attire. So this wasn't any act or imagine or facade, this was Ralph Lamb. I mean his background had been he had grown up on a ranch with many brothers. And their sister is married to Bill Peccole, Wanda. And Bill Peccole was a very influential political force many years ago. He was a member of the city commission and later a very successful and continues to be a very successful developer. Peccole Ranch, all that. Bill Peccole would be one of the largest developers in Southern Nevada, and a product of many, many years here in Southern Nevada. And his sister is a Lamb. MR. ANDERSON: Okay, back to Glen Jones. From what I TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 19 read and, of course, from the Green Felt Jungle -- I've heard a lot of people say that that book is not the most accurate and that it sort of does injustice to some people, but that Glen Jones was involved in Roxie's behind the scenes in running that business and profiting from it as well as. SENATOR BRYAN: You know, I really don't know that. First of all, you know, these events occurred when I was in high school, and so I really don't know whether that's true or not. What I do know is that Roxie's and prostitution in Clark County became an issue in the campaign of 1954, and George Dickerson, a young dynamic lawyer who ran for district attorney, and Butch Leypoldt were committed to eliminate prostitution in the county. And they did so. MR. ANDERSON: What kind of stand did your dad take on that? SENATOR BRYAN: You know, I don't really recall. My father was defeated in the primary. In those days the election for county offices was decided in the Democratic primary, the overwhelming registration. And my father ran against George Dickerson. They were good friends, remain good friends. George and Dorie, Bonnie and I are just crazy about them and their kids who live here in Southern Nevada. And the primary was not one of these vicious, mean-spirited affairs. I mean in those days, politics I think was much less down and dirty. There were hard fought campaigns but the town was TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 20 small. The 1954 campaign, television had just come to Southern Nevada so it didn't have the influence. Newspapers played still a dominate role. People would tack up posters on telephone poles. I mean, it was a much less sophisticated era. And the campaign would kind of consist that the candidates would go out and talk to various community groups. That was still to some extent a part of it when I first ran in 1968. But in 1954 the town was small. And so I don't recall that there were any real issues between my father and George. My father was an older man. He had been practicing law in the community since 1943. But the Dickerson family is one of great prominence. George's father was a governor. His brother, attorney general; another brother, a journalist, a columnist that wrote Salmagundi. So I mean, this was a very, very prominent Nevada family, the Dickersons. And my father got beat fair and square. I mean, he was profoundly disappointed, but he never was bitter about it, and he George Dickerson remained close friends. In fact, George's wife, Dorie, was my brother's kindergarten teacher. MR. ANDERSON: Let's see. In 1960 you were not quite of voting age. SENATOR BRYAN: In 1960 I was of voting age. In 1960 I had graduated from college, was one of America's fighting men and worked at the Nevada Test Site for a period of months, TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 21 and then went on to law school in the fall of 1960. MR. ANDERSON: Let me ask you this then: Do you remember the campaign between Wendell Bunker and Oran Gragson? SENATOR BRYAN: That campaign was in 1959, only vaguely. I was away at the University of Nevada. The thing that I do remember about it -- and some of that was passed on. I was not in the community, but Wendell Bunker, a highly respected individual, prominent family. Oran Gragson, the essence of just a decent, wonderful person that was well liked in the community. And Oran had a speech impediment, he stuttered. And I think the conventional wisdom -- I don't recall how the challenge came about. But at least as it was reported, Wendell Bunker had challenged Oran Gragson to a debate. And that was perceived by the community who knew Oran as a bit of an unfair challenge because of Oran's speech impediment. Whether that was the decisive moment of the campaign, I do not know, but again, all reports were that it generated a backlash. I don't know what the polling data, even if there was polling data. But Oran Gragson was elected mayor, and truly a remarkable successful mayor, bringing various factions together. And I believe he served for four terms if memory serves me correctly. I think he served for 16 years. MR. ANDERSON: Yes, he did. TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 22 SENATOR BRYAN: Yes, 16 years. In fact, he was replaced by Bill Briare who defeated Harry Reid in 1975 for mayor. MR. ANDERSON: What a fascinating place. SENATOR BRYAN: It is fascinating. Some of the names are still about. MR. ANDERSON: We talked with Oran Gragson. I was so impressed with him. I don't know if he ever got out of high school. SENATOR BRYAN: He's a self-made man, came here during the Depression with his wife, Bonny. Kenny Gragson and I went to high school together. Kenny's the same kind of a great fellow. Kenny was an athlete. I couldn't walk and chew gum, but I managed the basketball team at Las Vegas High School, and I got to know Kenny who was an athlete and played basketball for Las Vegas High School, and he played football his senior year, and got to know Kenny very well. And later Kenny and I were active in Jaycees. When I was elected governor, among my appointments to the Nevada Gaming commission was Kenny Gragson. MR. ANDERSON: That's pretty much it because that's the stuff I wanted. But Oran Gragson, just an honest-to-the-bone kind of guy. SENATOR BRYAN: And everybody knew it. Everybody knew it. And I believe that Oran's theme was "Because TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 23 Integrity Still Counts." I think Oran could verify that, but that's my recollection. MR. ANDERSON: Now, who was sheriff then? SENATOR BRYAN: Ralph Lamb would have been sheriff. MR. ANDERSON: Okay. But you also had city police? SENATOR BRYAN: Yes, oh, yes. In fact, the consolidation of the metro occurred as a result of an enactment of the legislature in 1973. So yes, you did have a series of chiefs of police, but the sheriff was the dominant political figure. A chief of police is appointed by what was then referred to as the city commission. And the sheriff had his own independent political base as an elected official, plus the sheriff served as the chairman of the liquor and licensing board so that every liquor license in the county had to be approved by the licensing board. And Clark County, unlike other counties, exercised, which the law permitted, a separate licensing authority for gaming. So even though the gaming commission approved your license, you still had to get the approval of the Clark County Liquor and Gaming Licensing Board. And so as the chairman, he was the one that conducted the investigation and background. And from time to time that became somewhat controversial, particularly during the Spilotro era. There was the state's licensing and then the county licensing. The county did not always agree or concur with the state's licensing. In most instances they did, but TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 24 there were some times in which there was significant disagreement, and then you'd have this major controversy. MR. ANDERSON: I think that's about it. I just wanted to make sure I got that nuclear story because a big part of this whole thing is about that. Here are all of my tapes right here: Herb MacDonald, James McMillan, Paul Christensen, Harley Harmon. SENATOR BRYAN: These are people that can really talk about the old days. MR. ANDERSON: Bob Maheu, R. Guild Gray, Oran Gragson, right there. SENATOR BRYAN: Well, of course, Harley Harmon, one of the most prominent of the Nevada families, his father was a candidate for governor and really a very, very impressive family background. They're really part of the pioneers of the community. MR. ANDERSON: Yeah, here in 1905. (End of tape.) TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 25 * * * * * ATTEST: The foregoing transcript of the interview was transcribed fully and accurately from the audio tape provided by KNPR Radio. Eunice G. Jones, Transcriptionist TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 ??