1 NEVADA STATE MUSEUM & HISTORICAL SOCIETY LAS VEGAS, NEVADA THE LAS VEGAS I REMEMBER INTERVIEW WITH RUTHE DESKIN February 5, 1998 Taken At KNPR Studios 5151 Boulder Highway Las Vegas, Nevada TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 2 MR. ANDERSON: This is for the radio documentary The Las Vegas I Remember. I'm Tim Anderson at the studios of KNPR on February 5th, 1998. 1998, hard to believe. And if you will introduce yourself, please. MS. DESKIN: All right. I'm Ruthe Deskin. At the present time I'm the assistant to the publisher of the Las Vegas Sun, a job I've held for some 44 years. MR. ANDERSON: Okay. So I guess we can just start at the beginning there, about your coming to Las Vegas. How did that all happen? MS. DESKIN: Well, I came to Las Vegas in 1940 the first time. My husband was transferred down here. He was with the Nevada Employment Security Department. And when we came, there wasn't anyplace to live in Las Vegas, so we had to take a little kitchenette in a motel down on Fremont Street, and it was very uncomfortable. We had two children. And I think there was one room and a little kitchenette. We lived there for some time, until we got a place over on Tenth Street that was built by Mr. Johnson, who had a clothing store here on Fremont Street. And we were most fortunate to get in there. We had to pull some strings to get into this apartment. And my husband became very friendly with a couple that had moved into Nellis, a young Air Force major who'd moved into Nellis. And at that time there wasn't any housing TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 3 for the officers at Nellis, so he decided to let the major and his wife and little boy move in with us without even consulting with me. So it was kind of unpleasant there for a while with seven of us living in a two-bedroom place with one bathroom. Finally they built some apartments. The government built some apartments. Kelso-Turner at that time was military, so they got a place over there. And shortly after that, my husband went into the Navy, and I moved back up to Reno. MR. ANDERSON: During the war? MS. DESKIN: Yes. MR. ANDERSON: Okay. What were your initial impressions of Las Vegas at the time? MS. DESKIN: I liked Las Vegas. It was small. It was hot. We didn't have air conditioning in the one apartment. And I remember we built a little affair with a wet blanket and a fan behind it. Our cars didn't have air conditioning. There was kind of a gadget that you put on one of the windows. And as you drove, the wind came through a water mixture of some kind, and that was our air conditioning. And it was very hot. But I liked Las Vegas. I liked the people. And I was happy to leave, though, at that particular time, because with my husband gone, and I wanted to get back up home with my family. TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 4 MR. ANDERSON: So you're originally from Reno? MS. DESKIN: Yes, I was born in Yerington Nevada, Pizen Switch. MR. ANDERSON: Okay. So you must be good friends with Joe Dini out there, then. MS. DESKIN: Oh, yes, yes. MR. ANDERSON: So you left during the war, but you came back. What year did you come back, Ruthe? MS. DESKIN: Must have been '95 (sic). Yeah, it was about in '95, because I worked at Hurlong Ordinance Depot out of Susanville, California during the war, and then we came back. And back in the same -- my husband -- in the same position with the state employment security department. MR. ANDERSON: We better take that again. MS. DESKIN: Yeah. MR. ANDERSON: You said '95, it was -- MS. DESKIN: Oh, I'm sorry. MR. ANDERSON: He came back when? That would have been -- MS. DESKIN: In '45. MR. ANDERSON: So right when the war ended, then? MS. DESKIN: Yeah, right when the war ended. We lived in Henderson because there still wasn't much available in Las Vegas. So we lived in Henderson at that time, and my husband drove in to work. TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 5 MR. ANDERSON: Did you live in some of the housing that had been built for Basic Magnesium? MS. DESKIN: Yes, Basic housing. The house that we lived in is torn down now, on Basic and Water. And then he did a radio program on KENO about hiring the disabled and the handicapped for the employment security department, and I wrote the script for it. So one day he was in there doing the show, and Max Kelch, who was the owner of KENO at the time, asked him about the script. He apparently thought it was fairly good script. So my husband told him I had written it. And he said, "Well, would she like a job in radio?" So I went in and talked to Max, and the next thing I know, I'm doing copyrighting at KENO. And that was something new for me, although I was a journalism graduate from UNR in Reno and had been working for newspapers, but radio was something brand new to me. And that's how I got into the business. MR. ANDERSON: Max Kelch must have been quite a guy, because he did not hesitate to put women to work in the radio business. MS. DESKIN: No. When it came to work, I don't think it made a difference to Max. He looked for talent. That sounds like I'm promoting myself, but... He was a wonderful guy to work for. Tough, real TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 6 tough. And if you didn't do your job, you weren't there very long. But he'd back you 100 percent. One time I had done some commercials for Desert Furniture it was called. And the fellow that owned it was a real tough guy. And I did a commercial that I thought was just fabulous. And I called him up and read it to him, and there was dead silence on the other end. And I thought, "Boy, he's really awestruck with this." It turned out that he didn't like it at all. And he lit into me something terrible and made me cry. In those days I cried easy, I guess. Anyway, I told Max about it. And Max said, "Well, get in the car, and we'll go right down there." And we went down there. And Mr. Kelch, we all called him, said to the fellow, "I want you to know that I have the best copywriters in the country, and Ruthe is one of them." And he said, "I assume that you're the best furniture dealer in Las Vegas." And the guy said, "Yes, I am." He said, "Well, then you sell your furniture, and Ruthe will write your copy, and everybody will be happy." That's the way it ended. So I wrote copy for that man for years. From that time on, he was happy. I don't know whether he was afraid of Mr. Kelch or not. MR. ANDERSON: I think he probably had good enough -- MS. DESKIN: Mr. Kelch was, I'd say, about six-four TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 7 and weighed about 220, so maybe he was. MR. ANDERSON: I think he had good sense enough to be. MS. DESKIN: Yeah, yeah. MR. ANDERSON: Six-four, big guy. MS. DESKIN: Yes, he was a big man, uh-huh. MR. ANDERSON: Maybe you could tell me a little bit more about Max Kelch then. After the war people thought, "Well, gee, things are probably going to slow down in Las Vegas, and we don't want that to happen." And I think that may have been a little bit before the Live Wire. But maybe you could tell me a little bit about the genesis of the Live Wires and people like Max Kelch, if you know, and how that all got started. MS. DESKIN: Well, I remember Max talking about the Live Wire Fund and then actually getting some people together. It came out of the chamber of commerce. And he really was the spearhead for the Live Wire Fund. And then as I recall, he convinced them to hire a national advertiser or public relations firm. And they brought in two people from Steve Hannegan, which was one of the top firms at the time. And it was quite a coup that they were able to get this firm in. And they brought in a man by the name of Ken Frogley and Art Forrest. And Art is still around. I don't know where TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 8 Ken is, but Art Forrest is still around. And they took over the advertizing and the promotion of Las Vegas. It was very successful, very successful. But Max is really the one that was behind all of that. MR. ANDERSON: That's amazing. Did you ever talk to him about where he got this idea or how he came up with this? MS. DESKIN: I don't know. I talked to him a lot. We all did. We all knew him very well. I think mostly it was his love of Las Vegas. I think he truly had a dream of it being something much more than it was at that time. And actually his dreams have proven to be true. His station was located on the Strip across from where the defunct El Rancho Vegas is now and was quite a showplace out there. And he had a lot of confidence that the Strip would be something really major in the years to come. MR. ANDERSON: A lot of people did not share his confidence. After the dam was done, people thought, "Oh, this is going to be a quiet little tourist town and not going to be much. This place isn't going to be much." MS. DESKIN: That's right. Well, even when they built the convention center, there were people against that. If it hadn't been for George Albright, who was on the county commission and then later became the convention center director, George was the one who believed in that. And there were a lot of people who said, "Why are we building a TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 9 convention center?" And you know what happened there. MR. ANDERSON: It's been a huge success. MS. DESKIN: It takes dreamers like that. MR. ANDERSON: It really does. MS. DESKIN: Yeah. MR. ANDERSON: Gosh, if I had come to Las Vegas back then and looked at this, I don't know where I would have seen that kind of potential. But Las Vegas has really been built by these men and women who had a lot of faith in this town. MS. DESKIN: Yes. We always laugh because people will say to me, "Well, why didn't you buy some land then," or why didn't you do this or that. Well, none of us had any money, so we couldn't buy land. But the people who believed went out and borrowed money and bought land. Where some of us who were a little bit more reluctant to go into debt for anything like that, we were kind of left out. MR. ANDERSON: Risk takers. MS. DESKIN: Yes, that's right. MR. ANDERSON: They went out on a limb. Maybe you could tell me a little bit about your early work at the RJ, and maybe some more about KENO, KLAS, the Last Frontier, and sort of the character and the feel of the early Las Vegas media businesses. MS. DESKIN: Well, I had known John Cahlan prior to coming down here, and I had worked on the Reno Evening TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 10 Gazette, so they knew that I had a background in newspaper journalism. So when I came down here, they asked me if I would like to cover the Henderson area, because I was living out there at the time. And I said, yeah, I'd give it a shot. So there was a fellow named Don Ashbaugh over in Boulder City, quite a historian and quite well known over there, who was the head of all of the area outside of Las Vegas as far as the Review-Journal was concerned. So I would write a story, and it would funnel through Don and then back through him to the main office down here. And it got so if I'd write a story, say, tomorrow, a month later it would appear. And I thought, oh, who needs that? But I did it anyway for a while because I knew John Cahlan and Al. And it was when I went to work for the radio station that I stopped doing that. But it seems odd that that was my first job here, at the Review-Journal, and then I turn out to be at the Sun for all these many years. MR. ANDERSON: And at the RJ, was that '45, '46? MS. DESKIN: Yeah, probably would have been. MR. ANDERSON: After KENO, it was on to KLAS? MS. DESKIN: Yeah. They started KLAS Radio. A fellow came in, Dick Goble was his name, and Fred Stoy, and they came in and wanted to start a new radio station. And they literally raided KENO. They took the chief engineer, took a couple of the announcers. And I went with them because TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 11 they offered much higher salaries. So we all went there. And that was in the old Hotel Elwell downtown. And I stayed with them for quite some time. And then we moved out to the Desert Inn annex they called it. It was a bunch of shops on the south end of the Desert Inn. At that time Dick Goble was gone and Fred Stoy was the main owner of the station with a fellow by the name of Rube Jolley, and I can't remember the others. And then Fred went on and spearheaded the building of the KLAS TV Channel 8 with a bunch of local businessmen. And a little bit later on, Hank got into that. And I think it was Hank's financing wisdom that put it on the road to success. MR. ANDERSON: Now the Last Frontier, you had something to do with what they were doing there. What did you do at the Last Frontier? MS. DESKIN: I left KLAS, and don't ask me dates because I'm too old to remember that. MR. ANDERSON: Well, you can give me approximate years, can't you? MS. DESKIN: Yeah. Well, let's see. I must have gone to the Frontier in '46, '47, something along there. Art Forrest, who was with the Steve Hannegan operation, after I left -- wait a minute, KLAS. Art and I formed a little PR firm called Art Forrest and Associates, and we had our office down in the Hotel TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 12 El Cortez. And we handled the power company and telephone company and some other accounts around town, the El Cortez and some other accounts. And I got kind of bored with that, and that's when I went to the Sun, after being down there. Prior to that, Art and I both worked out at the Frontier. He was one of the public relations men at the Frontier. And Herb McDonald was there with us at the old Silver Slipper. And we worked there together for a long time. An interesting thing about the Frontier -- I was thinking about it last night. Talking about the race relation in those days, Hazel Scott, who was married to Adam Clayton Powell, who was a congressman from New York at that time, came to the Frontier to perform. And the general manager drained the swimming pool so that she wouldn't be swimming out there. And there were so many occasions. And I remember Josephine Baker came, and she was not allowed to stay at the hotel. None of them were allowed to stay at the hotel. And Hazel Scott stayed at the hotel because Powell made a big fuss about it and to keep it quiet. But they drained the swimming pool. MR. ANDERSON: What year would that have been? MS. DESKIN: That would have been in '53, '52, early '50s. MR. ANDERSON: Early '50s? MS. DESKIN: Yeah. TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 13 MR. ANDERSON: Okay. That was before James McMillan got here. MS. DESKIN: Yeah, it would have been. MR. ANDERSON: We've got a great interview with him. Well, while we're at it, let me ask you a little bit about the NAACP. McMillan talks about how the press in town was sort of reluctant to touch some of these stories, although Hank did publish some of them. Early on, they weren't touching it too much, especially the RJ; and that there was some radio station downtown that picked this story up and was a 50,000 clear watt AM, so this story went all over the west coast and then eventually all over the country. MS. DESKIN: Which story was that? MR. ANDERSON: The story about the planned march on the Strip. Now, can you tell me what radio station that might have been? MS. DESKIN: Downtown? MR. ANDERSON: Yeah. MS. DESKIN: In the '50s? MR. ANDERSON: Yeah. He said it might have been somewhere in the El Cortez. I don't know. He couldn't remember what station. MS. DESKIN: The Elwell, KLAS was downtown. That was right in the heart of town. I thought that was pretty well publicized, but I don't want to argue with Dr. McMillan. TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 14 MR. ANDERSON: Well, he said they were having a hard time getting publicity. So let's just go back to where we were. I want to hear that Women in the News and Johnson corset story, Suspants. MS. DESKIN: Oh, you want that story? MR. ANDERSON: Oh, absolutely, that was very funny. MS. DESKIN: Well, that was my debut as a radio announcer. We had a radio show called Women in the News, and it was sponsored by a little store downtown called Johnson's Corset Salon, and I wrote all of the commercials for it. So one day I went down and talked to the lady down there, and she had a new product that she wanted me to write the commercial about. It was called Suspants, and it was a little girdle with a removable crotch, quite the thing in those days. So I went back and dutifully wrote the commercial and got it on the air. And at that time a young man by the Barney Fitzpatrick was doing this Women in the News show. He was reading women's news and reading the commercial. He hit that Suspants commercial, he got into it about three lines. When he hit that removable crotch affair, Barney was gone. That was it. He just broke up. The engineer broke up. Everybody. They had to go off the air for a minute. And Mrs. Prater, who had the corset salon, really was upset. So she decided that she wanted a woman to do that show TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 15 henceforth. And that's how I got started. So I did that Women in the News for as long as I was at KENO. MR. ANDERSON: That's a wonderful story. MS. DESKIN: And then we went to KLAS, and we moved KLAS out to the Desert Inn. I think I told you before that every time I saw that TV show -- what is it, WKRP in Cincinnati? -- I could visualize our crew, the way we were during those days because everything that happened to them, happened to us. I don't know if it's still that way in radio or not. I mean, being on the air, doing a show and having some announcer come in with a big loaf of French bread and chew on it in front of you and all these things. Do you still do that? MR. ANDERSON: Not around here much. This is a pretty staid kind of place. But in other stations I've worked for -- and I'm thoroughly hooked on radio. I love radio. I've always loved radio all my life. MS. DESKIN: I did too. MR. ANDERSON: And I've left it, but I've come back. I don't think I'll ever leave radio again. I love this business. I love doing what we're doing right now, talking to people and putting this thing on the air when we finally get it in shape. It's just thrilling. The first time I ever had a tape recorder in my hand when I was nine years old, I stuck it in somebody's face and started asking them questions. TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 16 MS. DESKIN: Oh, uh-huh. MR. ANDERSON: So it was just my nature to do that. Now, what was this Southern Nevada Today? MS. DESKIN: Well, when I was on KLAS, they decided they needed a show. How it started actually, we had accounts. We would sell advertizing to the Strip hotels, and they in turn would want to have their current star interviewed on radio as a promotional thing. And as usual, nobody wanted to do this. So I got stuck with it, because at that time I was doing a little current events type show called Southern Nevada Today, and I talked about the Helldorado parade or some event that was occurring at that particular time. So they decided to stick the interviews into that show. It was a 15-minute show, and I started interviewing celebrities. And I became very friendly with Liberace, who was one of the sweetest guys you could ever want to know. And the way I did that was one day they told me I was interviewing Liberace, and I just wasn't in the mood to do it for some reason or other. I didn't want to do an interview. So I went in to the program director, his name was Bill Lindsey. And goofing off like we always did, I got down on my hands and knees and prayed. And I say said, "Bill, please, please do the interview with Liberace. Please do the Liberace interview." And I'm going through this big routine. All of a TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 17 sudden I see a funny look on Bill's face, and Liberace is standing in the door. You know, he had that little, sweet voice. He said, "Why don't you want to interview me?" I just wanted to die. But I interviewed him, and afterwards I knew him a little, and he's such a sweet man. But I was so embarrassed. MR. ANDERSON: I'll bet. I don't know how people felt about him. Of course, he was very popular, wildly popular musician and flamboyant and just terrific. Did you have any inkling that he was a homosexual? MS. DESKIN: No. MR. ANDERSON: Not then? MS. DESKIN: I hate to admit this, but I didn't know much about it myself then. I mean, really, I vaguely knew that people acted different, but it wasn't anything important to me. It wouldn't have been anything I would have looked for. I thought he was a little effeminate in some of his actions, but nothing. I never dreamed. Not because I didn't, it was just because it wasn't of interest to me. I wouldn't have cared anyway. And that's probably why I don't look for things like that. MR. ANDERSON: Too bad more people aren't like that. You know, who cares? MS. DESKIN: Yeah. MR. ANDERSON: Moving on to the Sun, unless there's TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 18 any other part of Southern Nevada Today that you want to cover. MS. DESKIN: No, I don't think so. MR. ANDERSON: Okay. MS. DESKIN: I don't think so. MR. ANDERSON: So you move on to the Sun with Hank Greenspun in what year? MS. DESKIN: 1954. MR. ANDERSON: Okay. MS. DESKIN: Uh-huh. MR. ANDERSON: Hank Greenspun, what a guy. What an incredible guy. I've yet to read that biography about him, and I still want to. Could you give me a little bit of a personality sketch about Hank Greenspun? Who was that guy? MS. DESKIN: I've often said he was about three or four different people. He could be very stern, unrelenting, very compassionate and understanding. Very honest. I worked for him for, oh, so many years. And I wouldn't have stayed if I didn't have the greatest respect for him. He was probably one of the most intelligent men I've ever known in my life -- intelligent persons I've ever known. And he never stopped trying to learn. I used to laugh because he would call up and dictate his columns to me. And every time he'd dictate a column, there would be a new word in there that I had to go look up or TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 19 I couldn't write out in my shorthand. I would notice if he had a new word, he would start using it in his columns. And he had this vast vocabulary. And I think he just taught himself new words all the time. I remember one occasion I always thought was a good example of his character. He wrote something, and I don't remember what it was. But a minister from Henderson took exception to it, came in, and he was sitting there. And I was sitting in the office. And this minister started to tell Hank what he felt about what he had written. And he said to Hank, "I question your motives." And Hank jumped up out of his chair, and he walked over, and he took that poor man by the shoulders. He literally lifted him out of the chair, and he said, "Sir, you can question my judgment, but never question my motives." And I thought that was such a good example of the character. He would say, "Well, maybe I was wrong in my judgment, but my motive was clear." And as I say, I just had the greatest respect for him. And then we used to have a closet just off of his office. We called it the magic closet. Hank was such a patsy for children. He adored children. If a child came in, no matter who it was or where they came from or anything, he would go to the magic closet and bring something out for them, a toy or book or something. We had to keep that supplied all TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 20 the time. And I remember one time, I loved it so, a little kid came in, and Hank gave him a baseball mitt. And the little kid said, "I don't think my mother will let me have this because she won't know where it came from." So we told him to have his mother call us, because I think he thought his mother might have thought he had stolen it or something. But I think those kind of illustrate what kind of a person he was. MR. ANDERSON: Would you call him a social crusader? MS. DESKIN: Oh, yes. MR. ANDERSON: What causes did he champion when you knew him? MS. DESKIN: Very strong on racial things. He was very strong about championing minorities. And malfeasance in government, he detested politicians who used their power for their own good or helping someone else. Children, he did a lot for children. Several times there would be a case of children hungry and families out of work that we got in the car and went out to wherever they were to find out if we could help them in any way. And funny thing, in the early years, Hank never carried any cash with him for some reason or other. So we'd go out to these families that were broke, and he'd turn to me and say, "Ruthe, have you got $10?" So I was always giving the $10 to Hank and TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 21 then teasing him about it. You know, "You owe me ten, twenty bucks." But later on in life he carried money. But that money was always, roll it out to anybody who really was in need. MR. ANDERSON: Could you tell me a little bit about his philosophy about running a newspaper? There's a wonderful quote. MS. DESKIN: Well, that quote that he always used: "A good newspaper was always on the periphery of libel." And heaven knows we had a stack of libel cases; some of them never even went to trial. Of course, the most famous was the George Franklin case, when he sued Hank for libel. And then of course, modern case that they just settled with Mr. Schwartz, Milton Schwartz. MR. ANDERSON: He did a little bit of service for the country of Israel some many, many years ago. I don't know if you know when that was. MS. DESKIN: 1948. MR. ANDERSON: So when Israel was founded then. MS. DESKIN: Uh-huh, he was in on the founding. And, oh, it's such a great, long story. I just couldn't tell the whole thing here now. His book explains the whole thing. As a result of supplying small arms to Israel through a very complicated deal, he went to Hawaii and got them and commandeered a yacht out of Los Angeles and took them to TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 22 Mexico and had them put on planes scheduled to fly to Israel. It's quite a complicated thing that he did. Then he was tried and convicted of violating the Neutrality Act, which is supplying arms to a foreign nation or whatever. And he was pardoned by President Kennedy after many years. But he took the rap for all of them who were involved in that case. So it's a great case of what happened legally and all. And as such, he's honored. He's honored as a hero in Israel. MR. ANDERSON: So, do you think that did something to enhance or hurt his local reputation? MS. DESKIN: The Israel thing? Depends on who you are, and I don't think he could care; that was one of the things about him. He never cared what people thought of him, if he thought he was doing what was right. When the Sun took up the fight for Judge Claiborne when they impeached him, a lot of people tried to tell Hank, "Look, you shouldn't do it; you shouldn't go this far on it." And it didn't matter if he believed. He believed that Judge Claiborne was treated quite abominably. MR. ANDERSON: There was a good bit, as there still is today, of competition with the RJ. And if you could tell me, how did Hank play that? MS. DESKIN: Well, the competition, in the very beginning, Hank was smart enough to know that when the Union TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 23 was kicked out of the Review-Journal, the Union workers were kicked out of the Review-Journal. The Union started a little paper called the Las Vegas Free Press. And they didn't really have anybody who could hold it together or do it properly, so they came to Hank and asked him if he would be interested in buying it. And he agreed and worked out an agreement with the International Typographical Union. And the minute he did it, he realized that he had to do something different; it couldn't just be a run-of-the-mill type thing. So he started his column called From Where I Stand. And Al Cahlan, who was the publisher of the Review-Journal, had a column called From Where I Sit, so Hank named his From Where I Stand. And he started taking after politicians and the other newspaper and that, and that was the way it got started. And then when Hank became very, very ill, I think he realized that the paper needed his strong hand to survive, and it couldn't survive with the cost of newsprint and everything going up. So he went into the JOA, the Joint Operating Agreement, with the Review-Journal. What it means is they'd handle all of the circulation, advertizing and that, but the editorial content is completely independent. Not what he would have wanted had he lived, but he was very, very ill. MR. ANDERSON: When was that? MS. DESKIN: 1987, was it? 1980-something. Yeah, I TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 24 think so. MR. ANDERSON: So how would you characterize his influence in Southern Nevada? MS. DESKIN: Well, he influenced elections, certainly was influential in bringing about changes in race relations. Oh, golly. Even the growth of the area, Henderson, Green Valley is Hank. I remember one day he took Barbara and I, and they had built the Paradise Country Club out there and golf course, and he took Barbara and I out there. No, it was prior to the building of the golf course. There was nothing out there, just some old lava rock and all. And it was a cold day and windy, and got us in the car and we drove out there. And he made us walk up on this little hill kind of overlooking the whole valley. And he looked around, and he said, "Now there's going to be a golf course there, and a town there, and houses here," and he described that whole thing. There was nothing there. Coming back in, it was a rainy day, there was a rainbow clear across the valley. And we looked and we saw that one of the ends of the rainbow was on the garbage pit out Sunrise Mountain; the other end of the rainbow was in Green Valley. And we teased Hank about the pot of gold had to be on this side and certainly not over there. And it certainly proved to be that it was over there because, well, you know, TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 25 Green Valley how it's grown and still a realization of a dream that he had, and Barbara along with him. You can't mention Hank Greenspun without mentioning Barbara, because he never would have been what he was without the wife that he chose, Barbara, because she was the stabilizing influence through everything. She's got a marvelous business head, and she controlled the business end while Hank did the rest, and it was a perfect combination. MR. ANDERSON: He was very fiery, and she was very, very stable. MS. DESKIN: Uh-huh, uh-huh, and smart. MR. ANDERSON: I was hoping she would talk with us, but I guess they're going to do something -- MS. DESKIN: I talked to her again today about it, and she said, "Oh, please not me." And I'm still working on it. MR. ANDERSON: I guess they're going to do a television documentary. MS. DESKIN: They're talking about it. MR. ANDERSON: That would be very interesting. MS. DESKIN: Yeah, talking about it. MR. ANDERSON: Okay. Hank had a feud with another very influential Nevadan in the state. MS. DESKIN: McCarran. MR. ANDERSON: Yeah, could you tell me a little bit TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 26 about that? MS. DESKIN: You know, I started going through some of my old papers and stuff, and it went way back to the time when Pat McCarran, Senator Pat McCarran really was the Democratic power in the state. And he was a Democrat, but it didn't matter whether Democrat, Republican or anything, he decided who got to be governor, who got to be senator and the whole bit. And he would back a certain candidate, and then if they didn't do what he thought they should do -- in the case of Charlie Russell, he backed him the first time, second time he didn't. And so Hank backed Russell. It became a political thing between them. I think it came to a boil really when Senator Alan Bible ran for reelection, and he was Pat McCarran's protege. And a young man named Tom Mechling came roaring into town and nobody had heard of him, and Hank backed Tom Mechling. And Mechling, did he defeat Bible in the primary? I think he did. And then when Hank was supporting him, Mechling went to a fellow by the name of Norman Biltz in Reno, who was another kingpin -- and he and McCarran were buddies -- and went to his office, and whether he asked for help or asked for their assistance in the election or what, it never was made clear. But that finished him with the voters because he had gone over to the other side it looked like. So that was part TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 27 of the big to-do. And then they found out just kind of by accident when Russell was the governor, that Meyer Lansky and George Sadlo had an interest in the Thunderbird, which was owned by Cliff Jones and Marion Hicks and that bunch. And Hank jumped on that one and brought in an outside investigator by the name of Pierre La Fiette. And he and Ed Reid, who was the writer at the Sun at the time, formerly with the Brooklyn Eagle and a really great investigative reporter, set up -- you couldn't do this nowadays, but they set up a -- through the district attorney -- a tape recording machine out at the El Rancho Vegas, and hid in a closet, and taped conversations that Pierre had with different key people in that situation with the Thunderbird, and proved that the sheriff was on the take and a county commissioner was on the take. And it just blew the whole thing wide open. And as a result, McCarran issued a boycott on advertizing, pulled in all of the advertisers on the Strip and told them they couldn't advertise in the Sun anymore. And he was able to pull it off. And he died. And anyway, Hank won that case. That became a very famous case. And Hank won it, and they were ordered to put the advertizing back in the Sun. MR. ANDERSON: So Hank sued, is that how that worked? MS. DESKIN: Now, wait a minute. I'm getting TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 28 confused here. I'm going to have to go back. McCarran died. Now I'm getting into the McCarthy thing. Forget those last lines, the last one, 'cause I'm getting into the McCarthy thing. McCarran died and after he died, that was it. MR. ANDERSON: That was the end of that. MS. DESKIN: That was that. MR. ANDERSON: It was around '54 when McCarran died? MS. DESKIN: I've got it here someplace. I laid it down. Yeah, McCarran died September 28th, 1954. MR. ANDERSON: Okay. Out campaigning, wasn't he, I believe. MS. DESKIN: He was campaigning in Hawthorne, um-hm. MR. ANDERSON: Shaking hands with somebody. MS. DESKIN: Uh-huh, and over he keeled. And then that was in September. And then in October is when Hank started this series on the Thunderbird Hotel. MR. ANDERSON: Okay. Now, Hank was one of the first to come out against Senator Joe McCarthy, wasn't he? MS. DESKIN: Yeah. Yeah, he was. There was an editor in Wisconsin, I think, who came out too. And then of course, Lowell Thomas, the famous speech he made. But Hank came out against him because Drew Pearson was aware, and they both wanted to break this story, but they couldn't because they were in Washington and they were leery TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 29 about it. So they told these things to Hank, and he started on McCarthy and wrote some pretty violent columns about McCarthy, calling him a lot of things, which in time it proved that he was. MR. ANDERSON: How did Hank fare in that originally? Because, I mean, a lot of people were believing McCarthy and were caught up in the Red Scare. Well, the Rosenbergs were executed not too long before that. MS. DESKIN: I think so, yeah. MR. ANDERSON: So there was a lot of anti-red sentiment, a lot of fear and paranoia. MS. DESKIN: Oh, yeah. Those were the years when he had the famous case of the Hollywood writers and screen producers and all, calling them communists, and he literally ruined their lives. And the great scene when -- was it General Marshall who got up and said, "Senator, have you no dignity or have you no compassion"? Anyway, then there was the famous confrontation down here when McCarthy came to Nevada. And he came to Nevada to speak for Senator Malone, who was running at the time. And it was a strange set of circumstances, because at that time I was working with Art Forrest down at the El Cortez, and Malone was staying at the El Cortez. And I went way back with Senator Malone because of my family. My family were great friends of theirs way back up in Northern Nevada. TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 30 So here was Senator Malone bringing McCarthy in. And I remember saying to Senator Malone one day, "Why are you bringing him in? What good can he do you if you're running for office? Nobody likes him. He's thoroughly disliked." "Well, he could come in." Anyway, Senator McCarthy came in during that race to help Malone. And while he was here, he got in this real beef with Hank and called him an excommunist. What he meant to say was exconvict, which would have been semi-true because of the Neutrality Act business. Anyway, they got into a big brouhaha down at the city hall, or the old city hall. When McCarthy left, Hank filed a slander action against him. So he never came back. We had our reporters walking around with subpoenas so if he came back, we could, but he never came back. MR. ANDERSON: He was no dummy. MS. DESKIN: No, no. MR. ANDERSON: He didn't want to tangle with Hank Greenspun anymore. So I want to get clear on this, the feud with McCarran. Hank really sort of helped to discredit McCarran and helped him lose his influence, didn't he? MS. DESKIN: Yes, he did. Or he was on his way to doing it, you know. I think I've got it here someplace. When Russell ran and was elected, after McCarran had dropped him, and Russell was elected the second time, I think that was when TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 31 McCarran started to lose a lot of his authority. MR. ANDERSON: So the fact that Hank Greenspun had backed the winning candidate and not Pat McCarran? MS. DESKIN: Yeah, uh-huh. And then of course, Russell was governor when they discovered the Meyer Lansky association with the Thunderbird. But I just don't remember all that stuff, I really don't. It's so complicated. MR. ANDERSON: Um-hm. So maybe you could sum up Hank's legacy here in Las Vegas. What is the legacy of Hank Greenspun in Las Vegas? MS. DESKIN: Oh, gosh. I just don't know what you would say, a legacy. MR. ANDERSON: What are the most important things, his lasting imprint on the community? MS. DESKIN: Among the people who know, but new people don't even know who Hank Greenspun was. MR. ANDERSON: That's why we're doing this. MS. DESKIN: Yeah. And I wish that one of the family was doing it instead of me. The creation of Green Valley is certainly a legacy because it was done with such care and love for a good community life thing, and that was something. He didn't want anything shoddy out there or anything. That's a legacy. I think that while some people won't admit it, but I think the race relations are much better now than they used to TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 32 be, and I think that he was instrumental in helping that along. Of course, the university certainly. I think the Greenspun School out there is certainly a legacy that he left. They've given lots and lots of money to the university. And a wonderful family that he left behind. I would assume that's a legacy, because they're all still doing good things for the community and town. MR. ANDERSON: How old would he be if he were still alive? MS. DESKIN: He was born in 1909, I think. MR. ANDERSON: He would be well into his '80s. MS. DESKIN: Uh-huh. MR. ANDERSON: Yeah, he'd be 87. MS. DESKIN: Um-hm. MR. ANDERSON: Yeah, he'd be pushing it. Well, let's move along to another era in Las Vegas history. How about Howard Hughes? Before we go to Howard Hughes, there's something I've been wanting to ask. We've talked to Oran Gragson, and I'll be talking to Richard Bunker soon, too. MS. DESKIN: Oh, uh-huh. MR. ANDERSON: And Oran told us the story about his running for mayor and his election, and that really must have TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 33 been something. It really must have been quite an election. Of course, you were working on the paper then. What can you tell me about that? MS. DESKIN: Was I working on the paper? When was he elected? MR. ANDERSON: 1959. MS. DESKIN: Oh, yeah. Gosh, I don't remember. Who did he run against? MR. ANDERSON: Wendell Bunker. MS. DESKIN: Oh, he ran against Wendell. Um, I think Hank supported Wendell. MR. ANDERSON: Yeah, nobody was supporting -- MS. DESKIN: Yeah, yeah, because Oran was just a little furniture store owner, you know, and a very good friend of mine. He sponsored my bowling team. But I don't really remember much about that election, I really don't. MR. ANDERSON: It's a great story. MS. DESKIN: Yeah. MR. ANDERSON: It's a great story, yeah. MS. DESKIN: I know that Wendell, I think, had been a city commissioner. MR. ANDERSON: Ten years. MS. DESKIN: Um-hm. And got himself in a few little difficulties as I recall. A good family. I mean, as I recall, when Oran was elected, he had North Main Furniture TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 34 down there and that's about all he had. Yeah, I'll have to ask him sometime. They live right up there with me. MR. ANDERSON: Oh, yeah. I was at his house when we did our preliminary. MS. DESKIN: Oh, were you? MR. ANDERSON: That's very nice. MS. DESKIN: Well, I'm right down at the end. MR. ANDERSON: Oh, really, in that same development? MS. DESKIN: Yeah, uh-huh. MR. ANDERSON: That's very nice. I like that over there. That's really a nice place. MS. DESKIN: Yeah, yeah. MR. ANDERSON: Oh, yeah, he told us some great -- MS. DESKIN: When Oran ran for governor against Hank, or Hank ran against Oran, whatever way you want to look at it, that was the most remarkable thing. Rex Bell was running for governor, and he was the lieutenant governor at the time. And he died at a political rally, and there wasn't anybody left in the party who was willing to run for governor against Oran. I guess Oran had filed for the primary. I don't think Hank and Oran ever really got along all that well, I really don't. I don't know what he ever told you, but I always felt in the middle because I just loved the Gragsons. They're very good friends of mine. And of course, TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 35 my relationship with Hank and Barbara and all. So I was always in the middle of that one. Anyway, Hank filed for governor, and Barbara didn't want it. Most of us who were involved thought it was the wrong thing to do. But he felt that somebody had to file, so he filed for governor. And we started to go around the state for governor, for him, running for governor. And Oran was running against him in the primaries. Well, we'd go out into the little communities and here's Oran and Bonnie, nice down-to-earth people. You just can't help loving them. They're just sweet people. Here's this very elegant couple, very intellectual, very cosmopolitan, coming behind them, you know. And I mustn't believe that the voters were really befuddled by this. But the best story to illustrate it, we were in Reno one day, and I said, "Barbara, you look so elegant in anything, and you have such beautiful clothes." I said, "We're going out into the cow counties. Let's get something not quite so designer stylish." So we go into this store, and we buy this little seersucker cotton dress. We go over to Elko and walked into the Stockman's Hotel over in Elko. And Bonnie walks up, and she's got the same dress on. Well, we just hooted. Bonnie is such a wonderful sport, and so is Barbara. And we just hooted over that. But that was a good example of how the whole thing came TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 36 about. We were coming down by Eureka and Austin, and we had a station wagon, a Chevy station wagon. And Pete Kelly of Carson, very well known family up north, Pete was the campaign manager. And he and Hank were in the front seat, and Barbara and I are in the back, and we're driving along. And all of the sudden, whoosh, the whole radiator blows up, the whole thing. And we're out in the middle of nowhere in this funny old car. So there's nothing we could do. There's nobody out there. So we have to hike into town. And Hank said, "Well, we'll have to rent a car. We'll buy a car if we have to." And Pete said, "Hank, there's no car dealer in Austin. Nobody there that you can buy a car." So Pete's relatives lived there, his mother and father. So they loaned us an old Nash. That old Nash with the curved body looked some like an overgrown beetle. And Barbara and I got in the back. And we sent somebody out and got all of our suitcases. And we're all piled in there. We're coming along the road from Eureka to Fallon, and Hank said, "They tell me I'm leading Oran Gragson by nine to one down in Las Vegas." I said, "Hank you can't. That's crazy." I said, "Who told you that?" "Ed Reid." TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 37 I said, "Well, you know Ed Reid. Anything he says you got to take with a grain of salt." And Barbara said, "Yes." She said, "Hank how could you believe something like that?" And Pete speaks up and he said, "Well, Hank, that's impossible." He said, "The last time I heard, it was five to one in Gragson. You've got work to do down there." And Hank said, "That's what I need, a bunch of nonbelievers on my campaign, people who don't believe anything." And he said, "I would suggest you get out and walk." And Barbara said, "It's three to one. You're the one that should get out and walk." And the whole campaign went like that, the whole thing. And of course, Oran beat him in the primaries. MR. ANDERSON: He did. MS. DESKIN: I don't think Hank got 10,000 votes. Well, if he'd been running for senator, it would have been a different thing. For example, there was the Wilderness Act. It was a big thing up in Ely. And we went to the deal, and they had a big thing about the Wilderness Act out in front. And somebody asked Hank what he felt about the wilderness. And he said, "Well, I'm in the wilderness about that one, but I'll have somebody study it up for me." It would make a wonderful, wonderful sitcom, Hank TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 38 running for governor. It really would. So many funny things happened. And then one night, all of a sudden he said, "My gosh, what if I'd win? I don't want to be governor. What if I won?" I said, "You won't win." But it was an experience. MR. ANDERSON: So Oran eventually lost to -- MS. DESKIN: Oran lost to -- who did he run against? Was it Grant Sawyer? MR. ANDERSON: '60, what? MS. DESKIN: It must have been Grant Sawyer. MR. ANDERSON: In the mid '60s? MS. DESKIN: Yeah. MR. ANDERSON: Yeah, it was Grant Sawyer. MS. DESKIN: Yeah, it must have been. MR. ANDERSON: Okay. MS. DESKIN: I don't remember. But, yeah, it was a strange thing. I didn't mean to get off on that one. MR. ANDERSON: No, that's wonderful. That's funny. That's some funny stuff. Yeah, I didn't realize Oran Gragson had run for governor. I didn't know that. MS. DESKIN: Who? MR. ANDERSON: Oran Gragson, I didn't know that he TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 39 had run for governor. MS. DESKIN: Yeah, yeah, uh-huh. MR. ANDERSON: You know, he really impressed me. Did he ever get out of high school? MS. DESKIN: Oran? MR. ANDERSON: Yeah. MS. DESKIN: I don't know. MR. ANDERSON: Because he just seems like a guy of such bedrock integrity. And he won that mayoral election, I guess, with the biggest majority. MS. DESKIN: Yeah, and he kept being mayor. What was he -- MR. ANDERSON: 16. MS. DESKIN: 16 years. MR. ANDERSON: And he quoted to me what the papers had both said about him. I guess the RJ said, you know, it would be the political miracle of all time. And the Sun said, he'd more likely be the first man on the moon than be elected mayor. Nobody. The casinos were against him. MS. DESKIN: Yeah. MR. ANDERSON: All of the city commissioners were campaigning against him, and he won. MS. DESKIN: Yeah. MR. ANDERSON: And that's impressive. MS. DESKIN: Yeah. I'll have to go back and look up TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 40 some of that, because I'd kind of forgot. MR. ANDERSON: Because all the powers that be are against you, and you win big. MS. DESKIN: Uh-huh. MR. ANDERSON: That's amazing. MS. DESKIN: Yeah. And retain that popularity all those years. He retired, he never lost. MR. ANDERSON: Right. MS. DESKIN: And to come from nothing. Because the poor little furniture store hardly made it. He really hardly made it in the furniture store. But they're wonderful people, the Gragson's. And they have their son, he's a fine man, and their daughter, they're just a great family. And bedrock, you said it right. MR. ANDERSON: And I think people understood that about him. MS. DESKIN: Uh-huh. MR. ANDERSON: He wasn't sophisticated. People didn't look on him as a Rhoades' scholar, but they said this guy's honest. MS. DESKIN: Honest, uh-huh. MR. ANDERSON: And that's what we want. MS. DESKIN: And he was. And the fellow that followed him, Bill Briare had the same reputation. Bill was a little bit more the polished politician, but honesty and TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 41 integrity, uh-huh. MR. ANDERSON: Okay. If we can move on to Howard Hughes. Well, that Branding Iron review story that you told us about Hughes. MS. DESKIN: Well, actually, the first time that I ever had any meeting or dealing with Howard Hughes would have been in 1954. I think I was president of the Las Vegas Press Club, and we put on an annual affair called the Branding Iron in which we lampooned all of the local dignitaries and politicians. It was quite the social event of the season for many years. And we were rehearsing at the old Hotel Sahara where the event was to be produced. And this fellow came in and sat down. He had about three or four real good looking, young women with him. He sat down at one of the tables. And we were trying to go through the rehearsal, and the girls were laughing and very annoying. And so I went up to Art Forrest and Ray Germain, who at that time was active in the press club, and I told him to go over -- first, I went up to the Ralph Greco, who was the maitre d' at the hotel. I said, "Ralph, go over and tell those people to be quiet because we're trying to rehearse." I said, "They shouldn't even be in here. Nobody's supposed to be at rehearsal." "I'm not going over there. You know who that is?" TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 42 He said, "That's Howard Hughes." I said, "I don't care who it is. He has no right to be in here." And maybe I really didn't even realize myself who Howard Hughes was. So then I asked Ray and Art to go over there. And they said, "Well, no." And I think I finally convinced Art to go with me, and I walked over there. And I walked over, and I said, "You know, you people are not supposed to be in here. This is a rehearsal of the Las Vegas Branding Iron for the Branding Iron Press Club, and you're not supposed to be here." And Howard Hughes said, "Well, I heard there was something about me in the Branding Iron, and I won't be in town to see it tomorrow, and that's what we came to see." So I said, "Well, if you be real quiet, you can stay. But just be real quiet, and you can stay." And that was my first connection with Howard Hughes. And they were. And we did have a thing in the Branding Iron about him. So he got to see it and left. But he used to prowl the Strip all the time. He was very, very outwardly friendly around the Strip. And he had his guys with him. If they saw a gal he liked, they'd go over and give them the card. But that was way before he went into all of this hermit stuff. MR. ANDERSON: Was that before that big accident that TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 43 he had? MS. DESKIN: I think it was, yeah. MR. ANDERSON: 'Cause I think that was the beginning of when he -- MS. DESKIN: I think so. I think probably that accident, and then he got on probably pain killers and drugs. Such a sad, sad story, it really is. A man who could have done so much. MR. ANDERSON: He did. MS. DESKIN: Uh-huh. MR. ANDERSON: He was a genius. MS. DESKIN: Uh-huh. Yeah. MR. ANDERSON: A lot of people don't realize it, but Robert Maheu was telling me that the first soft-landing craft on the moon was built by Hughes Aircraft, and a lot of people don't remember that. MS. DESKIN: No. Well, what was the global, the thing that pulled up the underwater -- MR. ANDERSON: The Glomar. MS. DESKIN: Yeah. Yeah, Glomar. MR. ANDERSON: Um-hm. MS. DESKIN: Well, and he got his start -- his father invented that little thing on the oil fields that goes back and forth. MR. ANDERSON: Oh, that pump? TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 44 MS. DESKIN: Yeah, something on that pump that goes back and forth. Because they used to say that every time one of those goes back and forth, Howard Hughes gets ten cents. Whether it was true or not, I've heard people say that. But the night that he disappeared was like out of a James Bond mystery. It was so funny. I was sitting home and a phone rang, and Hank said, "I'm out at the Frontier. Get out here right away. And call Brent Armstrong," who was our managing editor, "get him out here." So I went out to the Frontier. And in this room there was Ed Morgan -- who was Hank's attorney at the time, and involved with Bob Maheu -- Bob, myself, Digilio from the Review-Journal, and Brent Armstrong from the Sun. And, oh, I think Tom Bell was there, a local attorney. He was an attorney. And they were in the Frontier. And over at the Desert Inn were the other portions of the Hughes -- well, I hate to say it, but they were termed the Mormon Mafia. And those people were over there, and that's when they took over. And they'd sent word over that Maheu was no longer in charge, that he was out. And they came in with such a cavalier attitude, unbelievable. And I sat there because I felt like a little girl from Pizen Switch, way out in beyond someplace, like it was a lost horizon or something. And they literally just took over, threw Bob out, as he probably told you. And Hughes TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 45 disappeared. I think it was that night or a couple of nights later or something. They just secreted him out. I don't think the truth of that whole thing will ever be known unless one of those close associates breaks the silence sometime. But I don't think it will ever be known. MR. ANDERSON: I don't think those people are very proud, maybe, of what they did. MS. DESKIN: No, no, no. MR. ANDERSON: Because Maheu told me that they had tried to get him in on the deal, saying, "Hey, we can take all of this from him." MS. DESKIN: Yeah, yeah. MR. ANDERSON: And he would tell Hughes there, and he said, "Hey, don't worry about it. As long as you and I are talking, we'll take care of these bums." But then, Maheu, said, "You know, I'd never figured in the day that I would never be able to talk to him, that he would be too sick." MS. DESKIN: Yeah, yeah. MR. ANDERSON: And I guess it was Thanksgiving eve, 1970 -- MS. DESKIN: Was it '70 or '69? '70, I guess, yeah. MR. ANDERSON: -- when he disappeared? MS. DESKIN: Um-hm. MR. ANDERSON: And so Maheu was out just before that time. TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 46 MS. DESKIN: That was when we were all out at the Frontier. MR. ANDERSON: Amazing. MS. DESKIN: Bob Maheu is a fascinating man. MR. ANDERSON: He is. I have the deepest respect for him. MS. DESKIN: There's a lot of stuff that he could tell that he probably never will about all the CIA stuff. MR. ANDERSON: A lot of it's in his book. MS. DESKIN: Yeah, it is. Uh-huh. MR. ANDERSON: He talked about working with Sam Giancana to try to get Castro. MS. DESKIN: Yeah. MR. ANDERSON: We didn't talk about that, but I guess we should have. You know, I was trying to keep it more to Las Vegas. How would you gauge Howard Hughes's impact on Las Vegas -- I've heard a lot of people give me the pros and cons of Howard Hughes -- as somebody who was working in the media and were familiar with the Strip and knew all those people? MS. DESKIN: Well, I think he changed the whole conception of the way business ran on the Strip. Before, of course, it was mostly the undesirable characters running it, if you want to call them that, the Mob and all. When he came TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 47 in, the corporations started coming in. So it was a whole change out there. Now the bottom line was the important thing. And I think he brought all the corporations in. I don't think he had much impact other than that. MR. ANDERSON: A lot of people see him as a savior of Las Vegas. MS. DESKIN: It depends if you think that bringing the corporations in and changing that picture, I suppose, that got rid of most of the Mob element. And those people who believe that it was better this way than it was the old way would probably agree that he salvaged that situation. I don't have that much feeling one way or the other. I think the present owners are just as good or bad as the ones they had before. MR. ANDERSON: Okay. Fair enough. These so-called mobsters, I don't know how many of them you may have known or what your relationship was like with them, but maybe you could give us some of your personal observations on some of the people. I don't know that Moe Dalitz can be described as a mobster per se, because he didn't run with some of the Italian guys from some of those other cities. I believe Moe was from Kansas City, wasn't he? MS. DESKIN: Cleveland. MR. ANDERSON: Cleveland? MS. DESKIN: That was the old Purple Gang. And he TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 48 was a mobster. I mean, the Kefauver Reports have all of the information on his background. Dalitz was like all the rest of them. When they came to Nevada, they were given a privilege license to run gambling. They generally did not do anything illegal in Nevada, because gambling was legal, because they didn't want to lose that privilege license. There was no way they were going to do anything wrong, even when they killed somebody. Look at what they did with Siegel. They killed him outside of the state. The famous story about Russian Louie, he disappeared, and they figure he's out in the desert someplace. But they came here with, I always say, freshly scrubbed faces because they became a part of the community. Moe Dalitz was instrumental in giving the land that the Catholic church now stands on that's by the Desert Inn there. It was those people who formed the Variety Club for handicapped children. They became a part of the community in a beneficial way, because they had their own character that they had to prove, that they were good, sweet, ordinary citizens. So they didn't do anything wrong here that would subject them to losing a license because that was the Golden Goose. That's the way I always felt about it. MR. ANDERSON: I've heard pretty much that story from other people. They didn't want to upset the apple cart for such a good deal. TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 49 MS. DESKIN: Yeah. MR. ANDERSON: So specifically Moe Dalitz, because I think he was probably the leader, really the leader among them as far as a leader in civic affairs among the guys on the Strip in town. Did you know Moe Dalitz very well? MS. DESKIN: Yeah, I knew Moe. I didn't like Moe Dalitz. Sorry, Bud. He was vindictive, and I didn't care for Moe. I liked Jakie Friedman over at the Sands better than I did Moe. But I didn't know any of them all that well. I didn't have any desire to. I'm the kind of person that they may have owned the town and everything, but they weren't welcome in my home. I didn't have too much to do with them. MR. ANDERSON: So were these guys -- MS. DESKIN: The reason, you know, Moe was very anti-Hank when Hank ran for governor. So I suppose that kind of affects some of the way I feel for him. In fact, it was said he spent $500,000 to beat Hank. Whether that's true or not, I don't know. And then they turned around and they were friends after that. They got along fine. That's why I always go by the old thing: My friends are my friends, your friends are your friends. And they can be both. I think some of the lesser people I liked better in the old days. Bill Moore at the Frontier, Bill was a great TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 50 guy and no kind of background that would sully his character at all. I liked Beldon Katleman over at the El Rancho. Beldon was just a freewheeling kind of guy, and I liked him. He had a few unsavory things in his background. These were not the big ones. Milton Prell at the Sahara was a real nice guy, nice guy to be around. And those are the ones that I seem to know more. Benny Goffstein was a great friend of mine. And the Kozloffs, Jake and Bill Kozloff, were very good friends of mine. So I guess I got into the lower level of that. McGinty, Tommy McGinty at the Desert Inn. Peanuts Denalfo and all of those, those were the ones that I knew. And I liked them. Nothing was ever put into writing with those people, no contracts, nothing; it was all done by word of mouth. And generally they were pretty honest in their dealings. MR. ANDERSON: That's what I've heard. MS. DESKIN: Uh-huh. MR. ANDERSON: Handshake deal. MS. DESKIN: Yeah. When they started the Variety Club, they had a meeting of all of them over at the Frontier. I was working there at the time, and they asked me if I'd TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 51 come. They had a cocktail party to explain this whole bit, and they'd asked me to come and sort of help assist on it. So I went up, and they asked me if I would collect the money from them for their starting up the Variety Club. So I went around and they started giving me bills, and I'm standing there with hundred dollar bills in my hand. And I had brought a little receipt book along with me. So I said to Bob Cannon, who was the general manager of the hotel, I said, "Bob, they're giving me this money so fast I haven't time to write out the receipts." He says, "Oh, my gosh," he said, "They don't want any receipts. They don't want anything to show." So I stood around with all this money in my hand. They were quite free. I think they were more apt to give to local charities and things than they are now. It's hard to get money out of the Strip people now. Of course, they've got so many places that want it, it's hard. It's a whole different ball of wax. MR. ANDERSON: They're not local either. MS. DESKIN: Yeah. MR. ANDERSON: Corporations that are based many and other places. Steve Wynn's a local. MS. DESKIN: Yeah. MR. ANDERSON: And I guess he does a fair amount for the community. TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 52 MS. DESKIN: Yeah, I think so. MR. ANDERSON: But you know, you've got the Hilton and the others, they're not based here. MS. DESKIN: Yeah. MR. ANDERSON: It's a different story. These guys lived here, had their businesses here and that's different. MS. DESKIN: And looked at you every day, you know. Kirk Kerkorian gives a lot through a thing called the Lincy Foundation. He does a lot. But with the old ones, you know, they'd give. Oh, Maury Friedman, who used to be at the Frontier, I never put an appeal in the paper for anything that I didn't get an envelope with a hundred dollars in it. If it was some kid that was sick and needed help or anything, I'd get a hundred dollars, and it came from Maury. Never tell anybody, but I always knew I'd get a hundred bucks from Maury for whatever it was for. MR. ANDERSON: How about the Moulin Rouge? Could you tell me a little bit about that? This was one place in town where the races mixed. MS. DESKIN: Yeah. And it was fun. Well, there were two places really. There was a fellow by the name of Z'Louie, who was a rather strange character. All kinds of exotic stories ran about him, how he had all this Chinese money. And at the time, I forgot, there was supposed to be some money TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 53 buried in the Philippines or something. I don't know. Anyway, nobody knew exactly where Z' got all of his money. He had a place. I think it was called the New Orleans Club, over -- MR. ANDERSON: Louisiana Club. MS. DESKIN: Louisiana Club, that's it. And he used to throw these big parties for politicians and media and people, and we'd all go over there and have this wonderful, wonderful food that Z' would serve us. So that was a mingling at that time. And then there was another place. They used to have jam sessions. And a lot of people didn't even know about it. My daughters and their friends used to go over to West Las Vegas for jam sessions at this place where all the kids gathered. And I never heard any problems, never any trouble or anything. Then the Moulin Rouge, of course, was more official like. And that was so much fun, and everybody enjoyed it so. Have you talked to Bob Bailey? MR. ANDERSON: No, but I sure would like to. I've got to get back in touch with Dr. McMillan about that. MS. DESKIN: Yeah, because Bob Bailey came in with that. And I think Bob was the MC for the show. His wife was one of the dancers. And Bob knows all of them. And it just didn't make it. TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 54 I hope this doesn't sound racist, because I certainly don't mean it that way. But somebody told me that one of the problems was wealthy black people didn't want to go over there. They preferred on the Strip or preferred something else. They didn't really want to go to the Moulin Rouge. Now, whether that was true or not, that might be one of the reasons they didn't have a lot of business. Most of the business was local for the nightclub and everything. MR. ANDERSON: That was after the Strip was opened to black people. MS. DESKIN: Yeah. MR. ANDERSON: I hate to say it, but I've heard that, that that is a fairly common bourgeois, black attitude. MS. DESKIN: Yeah. MR. ANDERSON: And integration was a double-edged sword there that hurt a lot of black businesses. Because before integration, those black businesses were the only places that they could patronize. So the black businesses were doing well. But then after integration became a fact of life, then black people could go anywhere, and they had a lot of choices. And many black businesses suffered because of that. MS. DESKIN: Yeah. And they're still suffering because now that housing is different, you have all races living all over the area, so there's no one area where they TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 55 can congregate. And most, it's like downtown or any area that is old, as people make more money, they move out. And this happens even in the white areas. MR. ANDERSON: Okay. We can cover one more thing here, and then I don't want to burden you anymore. But this section under the bomb, section eight, what it meant to Las Vegas. Bud Alexander, Drew Pearson and this heading that I have there, a feeling of betrayal. MS. DESKIN: Oh, the bomb, um-hm. MR. ANDERSON: Yeah. From your perspective as a newspaper woman, what did the bomb mean for Las Vegas? MS. DESKIN: Well, when they first announced that they were going to detonate an atom bomb out there, it was really an exciting thing. And I was working at the Frontier at the time. Shall I tell you the Alexander story now? Okay. Most of the scientists were staying at the Frontier at that time. And every time there was going to be a bomb detonated, Drew Pearson in Washington announced it in advance. And nobody could figure out how he found out because this was all top secret stuff. And the way he found out was the head of all the bellhops. Bud Alexander would get an order from the scientists to prepare lunches, and they were leaving the hotel at 4:30 in the morning, so he knew that if they were going out TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 56 there at 4:30 in the morning, that that's what was going to happen, so he would alert Drew Pearson. So Drew Pearson always had the first notice of a bomb blast. The first one was exciting, and we knew nothing about what the effects would be. And of course, now we know what devastating effects the bomb blast had on people upwind from it in Saint George, Tonopah. Then when they brought the soldiers in and put them in the trenches out there, horrible thing to do. And the milk was contaminated at one time. I know we couldn't drink the milk. And yet the DOE was always telling us there was no problem, no problem. Of course, now we know that there was a problem. And I think we all had lost a lot of faith in the federal government over that. MR. ANDERSON: I've got a lot of material, but I always like to ask everybody: Did you ever witness one personally? MS. DESKIN: I never went out there. I sat in my backyard and watched the first one, I remember, and it looked like a big mushroom going up there. You could see it clear from here. And of course, it rattled all of the windows. MR. ANDERSON: Yeah, I've got an iron worker who built the platforms out there for the bomb. I've got him, Troy Wade, who was the test controller out there during the underground tests. He witnessed some of the above grounds. MS. DESKIN: Are they affected in any way? TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 57 MR. ANDERSON: No, lucky. Well, of course, the test controllers are way, way away from the blast. Hal Curtis did suffer some radiation exposure, but he's well, unlike a lot of the people he worked with, you know, a lot of them who died from cancer. Larry Johns, the attorney who sued the government on behalf of the radiation victims, great, great interview with him. And then a Franciscan nun, Sister Rosemary Lynch, oh, terrific woman who was an antinuclear activist. I'm not a Catholic, and I don't hold much truck with any organized religion, but she is a powerful, powerful woman. Just tremendous testimony she gives about what they were doing. And what such deep conviction. So I've got some great stories on that. MS. DESKIN: Uh-huh. MR. ANDERSON: I guess that's it unless there's anything else you want to add. MS. DESKIN: I can't think of anything. MR. ANDERSON: Okay. Well, this has been wonderful. You've told me some wonderful things. MS. DESKIN: I hope I didn't get too confusing on that McCarran -- MR. ANDERSON: No, I think I've got that straight. Did you ever see the Rat Pack together at the Silver TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 58 Slipper? MS. DESKIN: I saw it at the Sands. MR. ANDERSON: Oh, at the Sands. MS. DESKIN: Once. MR. ANDERSON: Yeah. MS. DESKIN: I was not a great admirer of that whole bunch. I never got involved with entertainers very much. MR. ANDERSON: That's why you didn't want to do the Liberace interview. Okay. Well, let me get you back to work. MS. DESKIN: Okay. (End of tape.) * * * * * ATTEST: The foregoing transcript of the interview was transcribed fully and accurately from the audio tape provided by KNPR Radio. Eunice G. Jones, Transcriptionist TRIPLE J STENO - 702-648-5584 3420 EDGEHILL WAY, NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89030 ??