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Pat, maybe you should move out of Nevada because in Nevada, it's citizen's voted to enable Citizens to legally carry firearms. Anyone in Nevada can openly carry. That's the law. I hope you are never in a situation where a firearm could have saved your life. Are you aware of all of the shootings occurring around our country? Do you think Costco is on an island in regards to these shootings?
Christopher Levy –
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Pat, you do realize it was not his gun that shot him? How about we blame it on all the anti-gun loons that pollute the streets? His was gunned down by 3 officers for no reason. 2.5 ounces of common sense is all that is needed to see this unless you wear blinders?
Let's take the guns away from the people that murder starting with 3 officers in Metro
john –
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Erik Scott was not committing a crime of any kind when he was shot. Erik Scott was a Military Veteran who had _extensive_ training in firearms, firearm safety, the dynamics of firefights and he was a licensed concealed handgun citizen. His father is also a Veteran with similar training. It's hard to believe you would try and discount that under the guise that these cops were under "incredible strain" when they were not. There were not shots fired. There was no firefight or injuries or deaths prior to them arriving on the scene. The question isn't whether Private Citizens can pass a shoot/no shoot test. The question is...can these 3 police officer who killed Erik...can they pass this test? Did they pass it?
Christopher Levy –
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I myself am a friend of the officers involved in this shooting and while I will not speak to the specific details of this shooting, I can assure you that Mr. Scott's father couldn't be more off-base with his assumption that the officers would be high-fiving each other and spouting off about having got away with taking someone's life. I have heard similar talk of the reckless behavior of officers in just about every major metropolitan area of the US. Every city is apparently home to the worst officers anyone has ever experienced, yet those same people seem to neglect the fact that Las Vegas, through no fault of the police, is in fact one of the most violent and dangerous cities in the US. And while there are clearly those officers who abuse their authority, and overreact to perceived threats, this was not one of those cases. Officers are people with wives, husbands, children, dreams and fears. They are not brainwashed to be ruthless killers and I can assure you, are quite loathe to use deadly force in nearly every circumstance. Killing is a huge responsibility even when one is justified to do so, and yet is a decision some are forced to make and to live with.
S –
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...and yet you make bold statements here that seem to defend the police and exonerate them of the crime without providing details. You weren't there. You don't know what happened. Your statements are hollow.
It's clear the police made mistakes. Maybe Erik made some too. The responsibility however for Erik's death lies with those who shot him. Whether or not they broke any laws will of course be up to the LVPD's secret hearing and its results. That being said, it's pretty clear a civil jury is also going to weigh in.
Christopher Levy –
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Mr. Levy,
You make an important observation, yet I think you may have missed to point of my comment. If citizens, regardless of their background or training experience demand a certain threshold of discretion when officers are involved in uses of deadly force, they should consider being familiar with the scientific realities of reaction times, physiological responses to high stress situations and the fact that officers, unlike the vast vast majority of private citizens, are required to make life and death decisions within seconds of recognizing a threat in the first place. Additionally, the notion that officers need to respond to some violent in-progress felony crime in order to justify their use of deadly force misses the larger point entirely. Mr.Scott was in fact at the Costco in question, and police were in fact dispatched to that location to deal with a disturbance call involving, at least on some notable level, Mr. Scott himself. The vast majority of calls where officers are feloniously killed, are not in fact violent in nature at their onset. They are 'routine' domestic disturbances, 'routine' traffic stops and 'routine' disturbance calls. Something to consider...
S –
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S,
I respect what you are saying here and I agree. What seems to be a glaring red flag here is the manner in which LVPD responded. Do they have an SOP for handling CCW false alarms? This man was shopping for camping goods and he ended up dead over confusion between the store and the police. I think with Erik's death, it's time that LVPD and PD's around the country, came up with clear SOPs for dealing with a CCW false alarm and then putting this out to the instructors who provide the curriculum through which CCW licensees pass. TO me that's the major disconnect here. LVPD didn't have an SOP for dealing with these types of situations and it cost someone their life. Similarly, I noticed that Costco NV has a different policy than Costco TX for example. This should be reviewed.
Christopher Levy –
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My thoughts exactly, if he would have done what the officers told him to do instead of trying to be a rebel we would not have this discussion right now...
Greg –
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Right because obeying the laws and being a lawful Citizen and Veteran clearly say REBEL with BIG RED LETTERS.
Were either of you there? If you were, did you give the police your statement?
Christopher Levy –
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Sure I am positive your Cop Uncle and his friends would like Concealed Licensees to lay face down on the ground. That's absurd. We have been through numerous Federal and State Background checks. We are providing protection to the community far beyond the scope of the Police. There's no need to lay down face down on the ground unless a CHL licensee is in process of breaking the law. There are better ways to handle situations like this. I had the exact same situation happen to me here in Austin with no problem. It's clear LVPD didn't have a policy to deal with this.
C. Levy –
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You are clearly making a huge leap of faith assumption. Erik did nothing wrong. He was within the LAW. Costco clearly mishandled this situation. Had someone come into this store shooting the place up and Erik had saved lives this would be a different conversation now.
Fitting water bottles into a backpack isn't illegal.
This guy speaking right now is a sad case of slander. "I feel?" That's just unbelievable.
Complied with which officer? All 3?
A backpack from THE STORE... NOT his personal backpack.
C. Levy –
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Greg, I think you are missing a critical component of this story. It seems as though Eric Scott was following orders...its just that he was given three different commands (all of which conflicted). We'll all hopefully have access to the facts fully at some point...for now this appears to be a case of conflicting store policy, inexperienced staff (Costco and Metro), and conflicting commands which resulted in an unfortunate and wrongful shooting of a person, justified in having a weapon and trying to execute a command given to him by an officer of the law.
Josh –
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Anthony,
For the record, there are no witnesses who have come forward that have said on the record that Erik was trying to disarm himself in any way.
One of the few things Army officers are not trained to do is to "follow commands" and lay on the ground. More than likely, Erik had never been instructed about what to do in this situation. It's actually NOT part of a CCW or CHL classroom criteria as best I can tell. I think that LVPD and NV CCW instructors need to come up with an SOP for these types of situations. That would have clearly helped here.
Christopher Levy –
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He was never asked to "not enter the store" he was shopping with his girlfriend and being helped by the employee that noticed the weapon. There was no argument or scene. The employee continued to help him with the canteens the whole time.
Chris –
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Just wait until someone you care about dies in a negligent, "predictable" way.
Matt –
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