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Unification Church in Las Vegas
Unification Church in Las Vegas

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AIR DATE: September 16, 2011

The Unification Church, founded by Reverend Sun Myung Moon is establishing itself in Las Vegas. We discuss the tenets of this religion and speak with a skeptic of their cause.

GUEST
Reverend Staffan Berg, Church Pastor
Demian Dunkley, Church spokesman
Steven Hassan, former member and critic


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COMMENTS:
Sorry, Mimi Again. I have a BIG Mouth. For a Reason! I had Already mentioned your take on Korean Culture. That Is CORRECT. Absolutely. But You express it in Better terminology. Something about Confucianism value and Korean War thinking. EXACTLY. I made a 3 part Internal and 3 part External List and 1 of those Internal things was ASIAN vs. WESTERN, SAME VALUE , Equal Rights etc.,and Another was "We are NOT an ARMY anymore, we are a FAMILY. So I'll Probably get Back to you soon wioth my Big Mouth. But Please Skype: marianne ebsworth or PH: 61 0420 202 372. I'm in Australia.Seeya! Marianne Mimi Metcalfe Ebsworth
Marianne EbsworthMar 31, 2013 23:25:47 PM
Hey, I just noticed Steve Hassan's name out there.Great!! For years we heard how Steve was "evil", but Now Times Have CHANGED. HONESTY IS THE BEST POLICY. We are the Best of the Best. The sole survivors of the Faithful Few. So talk to big mouth Mimi! Been here 38 years! Oy Vey.
Marianne EbsworthMar 29, 2013 03:32:11 AM
Mimi again, Hi. I have Alot to say on: 1. GAY rights 2. East vs. West thinking, viewpoint. So Talk to me! SKYPE: marianne ebsworth. Or you can email me or phone me. I made a list of 6 Internal, External Necessary UC Viewpoint revisions. You Already got 2 of them! If we don't revise the marketing tool, then we are Not going to reach the Sales goal. The Product is correct,the marketing MUST be revised.
Marianne EbsworthMar 29, 2013 03:27:25 AM
Hey Mike! Marianne Ebsworth here. Someone on that other list said that you support Gay Marriage. Correct? RIGHT ON!!Seriously. My native tongue is Liberalese! I was Born and Bred a NY WASP Jewish Liberal. All my family/friends are precious Jewish Liberals. My dear old Dad was a Lifetime journalist with the NY Daily News. In 1972, aged 15, I became a McGovernite. You know who else was a McGovernite? Hillary Rodham Clinton. Check out her autobiography. She sounds Just Like Me!! Oy Vey.I'm in OZ currently. Apparently you speak Liberalese too. There Must be Some reason why I ENDURED 38 years of Right Wing Fundamentalist "Preaching". The most Beautiful man in my universe was/is a LGBT activist. He has Already worked for Hillary the Previous time. NOW IS THE TIME. "This is the Female Century" - H.J.H. Moon Also, I think you said something about Asian/Korean views of homosexuality etc. Very CORRECT. I saw a video documentary from D. Belfort on N. Korean Prison camps. N.K. prisons/communism is Nothing like Russian communism! N.K. communism is a Cult! "Reward Marriages?!"Sound familiar? 1. Ritualistic 2. Monarchistic 3.Tribalistic CULTS! ALL politics,Religions,Sport,War Games are CULTS
Marianne EbsworthMar 29, 2013 02:07:23 AM
Dale, the amount of effort that you are putting into this thread is undeniably incredible. You also claim to represent the truth, and you oppose those who are, in your eyes, deceitful. In light of that, I am sure you wouldn't mind disclosing to all in this thread who you are, who you represent or work for, and whether or not you yourself are in any way benefitting financially, either directly or indirectly, from your efforts to oppose the UC and it's family members.
DEMIAN DUNKLEYNov 1, 2011 10:59:02 AM
On a forum that allows anon posting, why are you asking who I am? Do you hope that there is something about me that will help dismiss what I have said? People can check out the links and information I have supplied for themselves and make their own judgments. If you feel I quoted someone wrong, tell me who and how. My posts are for readers to get a more complete picture of your organization. I do not represent or work for anyone regarding this subject, nor am I benefiting financially. I am not Steve Hassan. I am not working for Kwak or anyone if that's what you think. I am a concerned citizen. Is that so hard to accept? Disagree with me if you wish but please explain why. Apparently you have not seen some of these criticisms even though Paul wants people to think this all old news. If that's the case, you should be thanking me for helping you see where more spin is needed. Paul and Robert have already started. Apparently since Jacob tricked Essau, the organization is now supposed to get a pass on the use of manipulation.
DaleNov 6, 2011 23:18:43 PM
"claim to represent the truth," I am human and can be wrong. What did I write that was not true? Where have I claimed someone, particularly Hyung Jin, said something they did not say? "those who are, in your eyes, deceitful" Many former members attest to the use of deception by the Moon organization. Politicians who were caught up in the Moon crowning event in DC said they were duped by the organization. Did they tell Sen. Warner they intended to use the Dirksen building to crown SMM King? Sen. Warner said he was misled as others said also. There is a long time member who just posted below that he "left the movement for moral reasons- the Unification Church consistently employs unethical and manipulative practices, at all levels."
DaleNov 6, 2011 23:25:32 PM
Allen Tate Wood, who was a leader during the formative years of the group in the USA, described a root lie he was taught in this essay. Bo Hi Pak told this same whopper to Robert Roland who testified to this also: http://tinyurl.com/7hecxp9 [Miss Kim] knew that the messiah that I was following had been "a pure virgin 'til he was 40 years old". This is what she had taught us in America. [&] Miss Kim was trying to prepare me for what I might discover on my Asian trip, that "the pure virgin 'til he was 40" was just a little "heavenly deception" to tide me over until my commitment to "father and the movement" had transcended the narrow limits of my notions of honesty and integrity.
DaleNov 6, 2011 23:32:04 PM
In this documentary a former member says she was asked to lie by members.

Cathryn Mazer: The name Rev. Moon never came up. I actually asked when I was first going with them to the site if they were the Unification Church and I was told, "No!" Narrator: An FBI analyst wrote Moon's success "depends on very subtle deceptive tactics." Finally, Cathryn Mazer was told about Moon - he was her True Parent. It would be dangerous to contact her real parents. [&] She says the moonies encouraged her to lie to her mother on the phone - not telling where she really was.

CM: But it was just important whatever I told her that I did not tell her that I was involved with the Unification Church.

Interviewer: And they were perfectly happy for you to lie.

CM: Oh, I was encouraged to lie. I was asked to lie.

DaleNov 6, 2011 23:37:56 PM
Damian, your own International president has talked about how you are to no longer "hide" behind the various front names and specifically named the FFWPU as a name you should quit hiding behind. Why didn't you correct the host when he labeled you the FFWPU? Why didn't either of you correct the notion that you are a branch of Christianity instead of going along with it? Even Hyung Jin has stated you are NOT a Christian movement. Why didn't you tell the host that you 'differ' from other groups because you believe SMM and his wife are perfect, the substantiation of God. And since they are one with G-d, the physical presence of G-d, they do not have to bow to God. Why didn't you tell the listeners that SMM is here to bring the judgment? Why not mention that Jesus is the old messiah and that he now serves SMM's dead son? I think you were saying this in the lingo, but why not be up front and say "we teach that SMM brings a greater love than anything Jesus came up with." Can you explain why SMM's "autobiography" does not mention his claim to be the Messiah and G-d's physical presence on earth and form in heaven? Don't you think that is kind of important for the reader to know?
DaleNov 6, 2011 23:58:01 PM
After serving with devotion in the Unification Church for about 21 years, I moved with my family to Japan. I still have many personal friends in the UC, one of whom has posted on this very discussion. I left the movement for moral reasons- the Unification Church consistently employs unethical and manipulative practices, at all levels. I was not happy to separate, but was compelled by a sense of personal honesty and Divine guidance. As a committed Christian, let me simply make three points: there are kind, decent, loving and righteous people in the Unification Church, just as there are in many religious communities. However: kindness, decency, having a loving nature, righteousness or even holiness are not salvation. Secondly, if Christ had married and raised a 'True Family', there would be no path to salvation. The crucifixion paid the price of our sins, and the resurrection established the path to salvation. Thirdly, teaching that Christ did not complete the work of salvation, is precisely anti-Christ. On a personal note, I accepted Christ in personal prayer while in the UC, privately. I have no regrets for my time of service there. In Christ, Peter Warner.
Peter WarnerOct 25, 2011 09:47:25 AM
Regarding 'manipulation'; for example, in the Old Testament, Jacob was extremely manipulative in his dealings with his elder brother Essau. Jacob tricked Essau to sell his birthright, and tricked his father to give his blessing. Nonetheless, there was a path for reconciliation, requiring spiritual growth, between the two brothers. I have hope, as one acknowledging the legitimacy of spiritual paths, spiritual growth and religious traditions, for the resolution of such issues as 'manipulative behaviour' in myself and in communities of faith at large. I have little confidence that those who are professedly 'secular' and unsympathetic to religion are capable of resolving such problems, which are, after all, pervasive in society. In the secular world, the self is number one; and the general approach to problem solving is to pass the buck and accuse others. Basically, there is no role model for sacrificial love in the secular realm. In contrast, the religious world has archetypical models for spiritual growth along the lines of 'confession, sacrifice and redemption'. That is an essential meaning of Biblical stories.
Richard EisenmanNov 4, 2011 10:34:20 AM
Dear brother Dale. Nice to know you. You are realy smart gay. You know so many things. I just wonder can you realy sleep well with all what is in your mind and in your heart? I'm sure you have a good mind and a good heart too. Many wise people say we all will pass into the next world sooner or later. And over ther we will be with a people of the same kind that we are. Will you realy enjoy to be with people like you? Or even much stronger then you, who will put on you the same press as you do here? We better work out ourselves to become a peacemakers, don't we? And look for solutions of practicaly not easer toppics. Because we may pass away tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. We might not have much time to work ourselves out to become a realy good people. We have to harry, don't we? Wish you realy well. Sincerely
Tatiana TOct 14, 2011 14:42:46 PM
Thanks for your concerns about my sleeping habits but you need not worry, I sleep fine. On the information I have posted throughout this thread, I know it can difficult for members to admit the truth; it can be even tougher to face it. Hope you find the strength one day. Your pal, dale.
daleOct 22, 2011 13:36:09 PM
I agree but I would like to discuss this so called afterlife a little more thank you
jamesOct 24, 2011 07:18:40 AM
Wow, this topic has to hold the record for the most activity. Kinda scary...
Aunty PalinOct 13, 2011 11:11:27 AM
I was raised as a Unificationist since elementary. During that time the media in our country was intensely persecuting the church (which is called the movement that days), my teachers ask us why our family followed a cult. They just call our religion a cult just because the media say so. Although I was just a kid that time, Ive experience persecutions and mockery from people who dont even understand and follow their own religious teaching. As a result I to have developed doubt from my beliefs and eventually disobeying the tradition of the church got married to a non-church member. Doing so made me more confused and heartbroken. So I rely on prayers and begun searching for truth for myself. Tried to understand deferent faith. each time I gain enlightenment on a particular faith leads me back to the Unification faith. I then found out that the people who were spreading deceitful rumors were pastors and clergies who were afraid of the unification church phenomenal growth. Until now my study continues and by doing so my faith as an elder member (been a member for 20 years now) of unification I came to truly love the teaching of Messiah.
Ramel C.Sep 30, 2011 01:36:32 AM
I was also raised a Unificationist and came to understand the truth of the movement only in my late teens. I was heartbroken that not only my parents were deceived but that they spent so much of their lives helping the church financially, while we did without. I believe Rev. Moon has some interesting ideas, but the church itself makes a mockery of religion and morality in how it manipulates people and doesn't follow the laws of countries it is in. It makes me sick that they seem to think they can buy influence anywhere.
KeikoOct 24, 2011 17:41:36 PM
Well, I guess, I'm blessed enough to know the Divine Principle at young age. I just pray you do to people.
Ramel C.Oct 29, 2011 23:15:32 PM
I was reading the article on your Family Federation for World Peace website today about the newest enlistment of fund raising children of Unification church, previously STF, now called Generation Peace Academy or GPA. I think if you are a first generation Unification Church member who is getting any money whether salary, or stipend or even reimbursements for money you put out of your own pocket to accomplish mission work for the UC that your money is being made by your children on GPA. Looks like the children are still making the money necessary for their parents to eek out a living from the church work they do.
LTLSep 29, 2011 13:37:52 PM
Hi there LTL, . . . I can appreciate your concerns. I heard them in the 1970s and 80s. Happily, your worry is over something that has not existed since those decades, and even then, most such reports were vastly exaggerated. . . . By 1990 the MFT, the fundraising teams to which you refer, had been dissolved. Most of the church members then worked for the seafood and other businesses, receiving an ordinary salary and benefits. Others went back to school, and now have 'white collar' careers. Meanwhile families grew, and grandparents embraced their new son-and-daughter in laws. . . . Today, members own (or rent) their own homes, works at regular careers or run their own businesses. (I drive a delivery truck, and write pro-market science fiction.) . . . The STF teams to which you refer do local and international service projects, similar to the Peace Corps, plus outdoor challenge adventures and more. They were actually going to stop fundraising totally, and the young folks insisted on reliving such an experience, if only for a few months. (Also, it's a great way to meet diverse Americans, and witness many scenes in life.) The actual funds raised are enough to feed everyone.
Paul CarlsonSep 29, 2011 15:57:53 PM
LTL, what Paul is saying is that MFT isn't as big of a part of the cash and conditioning system as it was. 1990? But Paul, I thought In Jin was just now trying to end this conditioning system? I thought Jin-Joo Byrne joined the MFT in 2002 instead of going directly to college. Am I wrong? Here's some information on two member's stories about how they were exploited by the UC while working for their businesses. http://tinyurl.com/669bjum and http://tinyurl.com/3uyqncq
DaleSep 29, 2011 17:46:36 PM
LTL, Don't worry about the cash flow though, the organization still rakes in the big bucks from its main source, Japan. There have been over 30,000 claims filed totaling over 1.3 billion dollars against the UC and its members for swindling there. http://tinyurl.com/3knxqhq Those figures are said to represent only a fraction of the real damages to the people of Japan. Paul, a source tells me that the largest selling and most trusted weekly in Japan, in a scathing report, said the UC has shipped out over 6 billion dollars from Japan. That is the money used to fund the world operations which lose money everywhere else on the planet.(Hyung Jin says that a former director of the KCIA now does the books in Korea and things are now better there) Paul, do you know the time frame of this 6 billion? I was told that the UC is frantic that they have been exposed in Japan again and are having hunger strikes in front of the publication until they retract their highly sourced article. Do you think the Moon followers will get violent like they did in Korea a few years ago? http://tinyurl.com/69awsbb
DaleSep 29, 2011 18:02:26 PM
LTL, The GPA and other similar programs are largely self-sustaining. The kids who participate in them raise money chiefly to pay for their own and other program expenses and to pay for things like plane tickets to international service projects. The kids take financial responsibility to earn the money, maybe not such a bad idea for kids to do? I hear that the fundraising aspect of the program is about 1/3 of it; the rest of the program involving international service projects, witnessing, recreational activities and college prep. In so far as being a disciplined spiritual program with rules (like no dating) the GPA program has some similarities to the Mormon mission program, which program Steve Hassan started to attack in this NPR interview.
Richard EisenmanSep 30, 2011 01:24:54 AM
Frank, or is it Dale? Maybe it's Zeke here with an urgent appeal to KNPR's administrator to stop the constant harrassment of all these personalities from the members of Moon's juggernaught. Willing to engage in open and fair discussion but unable to cope with the constant hammering from their incisive logic.
Frank FrivilousOct 2, 2011 13:36:26 PM
Everybody. I don't care what side you are on, but lets keep it clean. Don't spoof someone else.
Richard EisenmanOct 2, 2011 18:35:50 PM
I love this dialogue, and love the air it clears out. I am also a Unificationist, and am very glad this interview got to happen. Thank you Nevada!
Eika DavisSep 29, 2011 07:47:38 AM
I am surprised some Moon followers act like SMM doesn't claim be the voice of G-d, G-d incarnate - the one chosen to decide what G-d's will is for the rest of us. You all know Moon's ego or narcissism has no bounds, why is this surprising? One of your pastors says outright when one looks at Moon they are seeing G-d. iirc, when he said this, Hyung Jin was reading from the Cheon Seong Gyeong - one of the book you call the word of G-d or the law for the Kingdom of Moon. Since the invisible God has no substantial body, the True Parents represent His form. The True Parents are individual, family, tribal, racial, and national parents, and in the future, God will appear in the form of the True Parents in the spirit world. This is the greatness of the Unification Church. The greatness of Rev. Moon consists in the fact that God wants to assume Rev. Moons form.
DaleSep 25, 2011 23:27:08 PM
Gee Dale, why don't you pull out your Bible and contemplate the following verses: Genesis 1:26: "God created man and woman in his own image." and John 8:44 "You are of your father the Devil". Get back to me when you've figured that one out.
Richard EisenmanSep 26, 2011 00:32:17 AM
No Dale, I'm not saying that your father is the Devil and mine is not, by the way. The point in Unification theology, which, by the way, is largely a commentary on the Old and New Testament, is that in the beginning, God created us in his image at which point we were one with God. But mankind fell and became one with 'the Devil'. And the subsequent goal of Providential history is for that relationship of oneness, a relationship of True Parental Love by God reciprocated by humankind to somehow be restored. You are assuming that the role of 'God and True Parent' is some sort of authoritarian dictator. But Unification thinking is that God is a 'True Parent' who wants to give everything to his children. A relationship of 'True Parent' and 'True Child' is not one of authoritarian and slave. Rather it is one of 'True Love' in which one lives for the sake of the other and vis versa.
Richard EisenmanSep 26, 2011 12:16:34 PM
You cannot understand Rev and Mrs. Moon from an external, political, intellectual viewpoint. Heart is involved. I just read a really moving book about a 'crazy' young man (whom most of the world has judged crazy by reading the newspapers, but you'd have to read the story to judge for yourself): 'Into the Wild' by Jon Krakauer. He quotes the author Annie Dillard and I found this quote apropos to this conversation: "There are no events but thoughts and the heart's hard turning., the heart's slow learning where to love and whom. The rest is merely gossip, and tales for other times"
Richard EisenmanSep 26, 2011 12:19:30 PM
SMM's ego knows no bounds, he even says he is better than G-d. How do these quotes fit in the rationalizing metric? "&Heavenly Father will say, 'Reverend Moon is far better than me, the Heavenly Father.'" (Sun Myung Moon - Barrytown, New York July 31, 1974 Master Speaks) There's couple of translation of this next one but like everything SMM says, it all tracks back to the same unsubstantiated claims. "In the Last Days, when God looks down and sees Reverend Moon bestowing blessing upon millions of people in place of God then He will say that Father(SMM) is even greater than G-d." (Sun Myung Moon - True Parents' Day is my True Son's Day - April 18, 1996)
DaleSep 26, 2011 22:13:53 PM
An interesting exchange. My friend Damien Anderson was an Internet pioneer, active on Usenet throughout the 1990s. A big topic was the UC/moonies, being far more widely controversial then. Those discussions are still archived, on about 65 densely-texted web pages. No surprise, we could look there and find the same accusations, virtually word for word. The defense has gotten much easier, though! With grandchildren, and now 'second generation' blessings and great-grandkids, the families of UC members are happily together. (Those lurid old cult rumors have no more pull.) . . . . Meanwhile, the worldwide good done by the church, and its many allies among liberal clergy and conservative activists, openly in the name of Rev. Moon, are recognized by the public.
Paul CarlsonSep 27, 2011 18:24:32 PM
"My friend Damien Anderson..." Back when SMM and your leaders claimed that Cleopas or "Black Heung" was possessed by the spirit of Moon's dead son and this Cleopas fellow went all over the world tying members to radiators and then beating them senseless (with a baseball bat iirc), wasn't Damian the first one to actually stand up and say "stop!"? Like when Cleopas was getting ready to beat Anderson's pregnant wife he finally said "no"? Can you not understand why anyone who knows that your organization is authoritarian enough to allow that to happen, that no informed person would want your organization anywhere near the reigns of power for that alone? Do you still rationalize that away by claiming that Moon was not fully aware of what was going on? He fully approved according to Nansook. The "Messiah" was thrilled when receiving reports of the beatings she said. http://tinyurl.com/3fe9tq The Moon movement has rationalized violence upon themselves when ordered. I know the plan now is to move on and act like your past doesn't matter but it does. How about the 700 hundred Moon followers who smashed up a newspaper and threatened the life of a reporter? http://tinyurl.com/69awsbb
DaleSep 27, 2011 20:48:13 PM
Now, both the UC and UCI factions are competing to see --- who can do the most good! Again, I thought SMM preferred everyone not support UCI, which you are doing. Don't you follow the living "Messiah's" commands? This was part of one Moon "proclamation". "First, all members are not to forget that they must obey absolutely all directions and commands of the True Parents, who are the only True Parents in the world for all perpetuity and eternity." Hyun Jin is head of UCI. Here's video of him smacking, punching, kicking and abusing your movement's leaders in Brazil. http://vimeo.com/12532801 Is this the "good" you were talking about? Notice that not one, NOT ONE, member lifts a finger to help these "leaders" as they were assaulted in front of them. The members just cowered as most did when Cleopas was terrorizing the membership. Hyun Jin is beating them in between readings of SMM's "Peace messages." http://vimeo.com/12532801
DaleSep 27, 2011 21:29:12 PM
About the Cleopas incident; my impression is that UC missionaries in africa evangelized to an Zimbabwean spiritualist Cleopas. The Korean Unification church (and culture) has a long tradition of respect for spiritualists, so Cleopas has a path to acceptance. This snowballs out of control. I speculate that there was more going on than just religion; maybe the race issue was leading Cleopas to violence. To some extent this incident also reflects naive expectations on the part of the Unification church regarding inter-culture and inter-racial outreach. But at least they try.
Richard EisenmanSep 27, 2011 22:28:04 PM
"my impression" There's no need for you to try to get an "impression," we know what happened. The LEADERS of the UC, including the "Messiah" himself, sanctioned this man going around the world beating the members. Bo Hi Pak was sent to the hospital. "has a long tradition of respect for spiritualists, so Cleopas has a path to acceptance." What? Korean members like to dabble in the occult so there is some semblance of an excuse for this? They were open to allowing this man to violently beat them because the door was open to him culturally? Your LEADERS approved of this man beating the members! Like I said, your rationalizations are just sad. Your reply confirms that the UC has a culture in which members will allow themselves to beaten senseless if the LEADERS say it is OK. "I speculate that there was more going on than just religion; maybe the race issue was leading Cleopas to violence.' What on earth are you saying here? That since he was a black man he was prone to violence? That's disgusting. Your LEADERS approved of what he was doing. Your living breathing "messiah" approved of it.
DaleSep 28, 2011 08:57:33 AM
"this incident also reflects naive expectations on the part of the Unification church" What? Members have "naïve expectations"? So the member's "naïve expectations" were what lead to their LEADERS sanctioning them getting tied to radiators and beaten? Beyond the fact that this verifies that no informed person would ever support the Moon movement anywhere near the reins of power, your rationalizations of this is frightening because it is what most any member would likely do. Moon's son dies - it is the members fault. Your LEADERS approve of man going around the world beating members and the members "naive expectations" are part of the problem. Before someone chimes in here and tells us how this is old news and even though it is beyond sad and disgusting we should all just ignore it, note that the "culture" has not changed one bit. The members ALL sat and watched as Hyun Jin abused their leaders in Brazil. http://vimeo.com/12532801 It really is sad.
DaleSep 28, 2011 09:14:38 AM
Richard, is this OK because it is part of the "culture" in Korea to spit on people? From Craig Maxim who entertained at the Moon mansions around the world. http://tinyurl.com/829346k My mother when she first went to be married by Moon watched as he went over and spit in the face of someone he didn't want in the room. This is in the middle of a wedding ceremony! The most degrading thing you could do, he just went over and spit in the guys face, in front of the startled brides in their white dresses, he then got angry and yelled that anyone who hadn't been in the church for at least 3 years to get out!! The fact that the entire room didn't walk out on the spot says a lot.
DaleSep 28, 2011 09:22:32 AM
Face it, Sun Myung Moon approves of violence and members are trained to take it. Watch Nansook as she describes how, when she went to the "Messiah" and told them about their abusive son beating her, the "messiah" and his wife told her it was her fault, she was not a good enough wife, it was her "faith" that said she had to endure the beatings. (and they claim to support "women" - what a scam.) When Moon's own daughter came to the living "messiah" and told them she was also beaten by her husband she was told she "DESERVED IT"! Watch Nasnook here: http://tinyurl.com/7s6cwyu
DaleSep 28, 2011 10:10:26 AM
UC members like to point to the church's (it is not a movement) continuing image as a loony bin led by a megalomaniac (and his millionaire kids) and Moon's imprisonment for tax evasion as evidence of "persecution," associating Moon with historical religious figures like Jesus, Gandhi, et al, whining that he is misunderstood. The fact is that the UC is full of very good people, including Eisenmann, Carlson, Dunkley, and the others posting here (or maybe they're all one person, I don't know). I don't don't their faith or sincerity for one second. What I have problems with is when church leadership (i.e., Moon, his bad seed kids) takes advantage of other people, breaks laws, and then rationalizes its behavior by framing it in some "providential plan." Like many new American religions they talk about spirituality but spend most of their time figuring out how to make and use money. Moon is a convicted tax cheat. He's enriched himself and his kids at the expense of his followers. Whether he believes what he says about himself is immaterial. I don't have problems with church members. I do have problems when the church continues to lie about what it is and where it has come from.
Z. HayashiSep 28, 2011 10:31:52 AM
Sounds like Rev. Moon was pissed. We don't know the full context beyond that the person who was the object of his anger was apparently out of line. Regarding "is this OK because it is part of the "culture" in Korea to spit on people". Well, it is true that Koreans can be very volatile. I watched a Korean Parliament session once and it was mind-boggling. On the other hand the Korean murder rate is half the US one. Not exactly the same topic, but when I lived in Korea it was interesting watching the student 'demos'. The riot police are all kids doing their military service, and they are very disciplined and restrained. And some of the same kids, apparently, when they are on leave, join the demos. Kids vs kids throwing rocks and and screaming, blowing off steam. Then everything is back to normal. Almost like a ritual. And I've seen friends yelling, screaming, spitting at each other. Half an hour later, its like nothing happened. weird. And religious people get pissed too; Matthew 21:21 Jesus flipping the tables in the temple.
Richard EisenmanSep 30, 2011 13:25:33 PM
I would invite readers, and this site's administrators, to consider whether "Frank," "Zeke," and "Dale" are in fact the same individual, posting under multiple personas. Some of "Dale's" sharper posts, such as regarding the tragic murder of Jin-Joo Byrne, much resemble some tasteless posts made recently on an 'internal' Unificationist board, by yet another false/anonymous persona. On the subject itself, it's a horrible reality that dozens of women are attacked each day, at home and work and school. My contention is that fundraising quickly builds up some real 'street smarts,' and helps women and men stay more safe, throughout the rest of their lives.
Paul CarlsonSep 30, 2011 15:43:30 PM
Now Paul wants NPR to investigate in hopes of intimidating the people who expose what the Moon organization is about. If the NPR host is at all interested and reads these comments, he is wondering why he let your reps mislead him. He should be starting to see more clearly how he'd been had. As for your paranoid ravings, Frank is a lot funnier than I am and if you took the time to read the comments you would see Zeke and I don't agree on everything. Both of them are clearly more connected to the group - either currently or in the past - than I. (btw, NPR has my email.)But I do understand why you would want to give reader' the impression that it just couldn't be possible three people actually took the time to help the unsuspecting readers see a smidgen of the disgusting actions from the Moon organization's history - things not mentioned by the misleading Moon reps. But, as some "Paul" below stated, I "respond so often with so many facts to back (me) up" - so why do you want NPR to investigate someone you know is telling "facts"? Even if they had 50 aliases. Your post brings to mind one question Paul. Do you wake up that paranoid or does it just build as the day goes along?
DaleOct 2, 2011 16:45:04 PM
Dale, seems I got your attention, and Frank's too. . . . (I happen to know Frank's real full name, and don't bother to tangle with his web very much.) . . . I do agree Dale, you are clearly one of the few 'old line' UC opponents, busy criticizing issues that are decades old, and were barely half-true even then. . . . What I don't get is, if you wish to be as credible as possible, then Dale, why bother with a half-or-false name? . . . "Frank" has not been an active UC member is more than 15 years, but not so "ex" that he doesn't spend maybe half the day conversing online with current members. (In fairness, my concern about doubled names more concerned "Zeke," who's definitely a false name.) . . . As for that whole Deceptive thing, it's mostly based upon one single quote, from the early 1970s, poorly translated and not in context. In reality, we have the early Day of Hope and Washington Monument, etc. talks, speaker Rev. MOON. The Women's Federation, founder and speaker Mrs. MOON. The newer UCI faction, leader and speaker Hyun Jin MOON. And so on, many times multiplied. Now we're handing out thousands of copies of Rev. MOON's autobiography. . . . Got it???
Paul CarlsonOct 2, 2011 19:01:24 PM
"Dale, seems I got your attention, and Frank's too. . . . (I happen to know Frank's real full name, and don't bother to tangle with his web very much.)" I don't understand this. You are excited because you got my attention, why? There are only a few people posting here regularly and I have replied to many of your posts already. So, why does this make you feel like you got my "attention"? You also admit that when you were complaining about the possibility that we were all one person and wished for NPR to investigate this horror, you knew what you were saying wasn't true. You knew at the time that what you were alluding to was not true. I know you mean well but is the culture of deception in the UC just too strong to break? Thing is, it would not really matter even if we were one person; it's the information we are posting that is well documented that you apparently do not want to face.
daleOct 22, 2011 12:51:08 PM
"As for that whole Deceptive thing, it's mostly based upon one single quote, from the early 1970s." Paul, it may make you feel better to make something like that up but certainly you know it is NOT true. I have posted about your own new leader admitting recently that you have hidden behind front group names like UPF and WFWP all along and that their REAL purpose was to promote Moon as the messiah, not what they tell people. The Moon reps on this very NPR show mislead the public when they made no effort to correct the well-meaning and grossly uninformed hosts  particular when they said you went by FFWPU in the intro which is a name Hyung Jin has specifically said was one you were to quit hiding behind. The dishonesty of not setting the record straight about how you really view Jesus is just disgusting, imo. Deception in the Moon organization is not old news or just one mistranslated quote and you know it. Btw, you also know Sudo's handbook talked about using lying to reach your goals. You are even taught G-d lied to SMM.
daleOct 22, 2011 12:59:26 PM
Paul, as for your litany of things the organization has done and the snarky "Got it?" line - you can hand out all the propaganda bios and boast about all the fronts that have pulled the plans off you wish, you will never ever change the fact that it was built using deception somewhere along the line. Tell me Paul, where in the "autobiography" does it say even one time that Moon claims to be THE "Messiah"? It's not in my copy. Did I just miss it? Hah Just show even one place where he mentions the claim that is the most important point of his life, the thing that is the reason his followers do what he tells them to do. That's just one thing left out of this piece of Moon propaganda. Why do you think SMM and those who put the book together left that out? It wouldn't be because he was trying to help the members seduce people into his web would it? How many times did the Japanese members shipped in to pass out this propaganda tell their prospective marks that the book was about the Messiah, the one who did what Jesus failed to do and the one whose son Jesus now serves in heaven. But you just keep being proud of all this. I feel sorry for you.
DaleOct 22, 2011 13:27:29 PM
Although the church has admitted its wrong doings early on in the movement, the fact is that its current business empire is founded on funds raised by legions of naive and impressionable young people, who were routinely lied to and manipulated by church leaders. I estimate that in my years on the Unification Church's mobile fundraising teams I made more than half a million dollars for the church, with much of that money going to the Washington Times, a boondoggle of a right-wing publishing venture if ever there was one, having lost more than two billion dollars -- and counting -- over its life. Beneath Moon's claims of messiahship, the UC's claims of running charitable organizations, and its desire to "give to communities," the UC (and its various offshoots) remains a homophobic, misogynistic quasi-religious group steered by the megalomaniacal children of a megalomaniac.
Zeke HayashiSep 24, 2011 15:29:58 PM
Hi Zeke, And you current plans are . . . ? Your use of "right wing" as a pejorative says plenty. In fact the Washington Times was honored by Pres. Reagan as a key supporter in his victory in the Cold War. Hundreds of millions of oppressed humans were liberated, and two billion was a small price to pay. Halfway sarcastic rejoinder: Would Karl Marx do better as our earthly God, and Lenin as his messiah? Maybe with Howard Zinn as his primary American scribe? "Claims" of running charities? The movement supports recognized, long-successful schools and more, all over the planet. As for "homophobia," that's a hot issue indeed. While many Korean pastors are ferocious in their rhetoric, perhaps you've forgotten that The Rev. himself had no problem working with some openly gay conservative activists, such as J Terry Dolan.
Paul CarlsonSep 25, 2011 17:22:01 PM
Hi J Terry Dolan - Your claim that "two billion was a small price to pay," is a joke if you think that rag had anything to do with the USSR's dissolution. The fact is that the WT had few readers, and indeed had to give away subscriptions to get anyone to read it, and wasted money made from the hard labor of impressionable young teenagers hawking flowers and candy on the streets. And if you think that anyone who uses "right-wing" as a pejorative automatically makes them a follower of Marx or (LOL) Howard Zinn, I suggest taking a political science class or eight. The history (and current practices) of the "movement" is that it preys on people who don't know any better. Currently it's preying on elderly Japanese members, trying to squeeze money from a population devastated from the tsunami. You should be ashamed of yourself for even being associated with it. Shame on you. Z. Hayashi
Z. HayashiSep 25, 2011 21:21:13 PM
This is the part where Paul uses the WT to rally conservatives to SMM's side. As Michael Jenkins used to say, the Washington Times "protects Father." The WT did just what Moon wanted and it has played a vital role in helping Moon gain influence here and around the world. It has served, as SMM bragged, as an intelligence asset for the organization and its friends. Another time he said he created the paper for the members to use to influence America. SMM: With the Washington Times as Fourth, it has to take preeminence in the realm of media. With the Washington Times as the core, we are establishing preeminence in the American print media, a field of more than 1,750 American newspapers. By doing so we can include all fields of intelligence. Today we have in this area surpassed the liberal New York Times and Washington Post, and continually gaining important confidential information not only from America but also from other governments all over the world. (Sun Myung Moon Founder's address Nov. 28, 1986 J. W. Marriott Hotel, Washington, D.C)
DaleSep 25, 2011 22:09:30 PM
Here's a link http://tinyurl.com/lq7vqg to a great panel with three very conservative speakers who all worked as editors for Moon's papers. Micheal Warder was a long time member who worked directly under Moon and who quit when the organisation wanted to take his child from he and his wife to be raised by Korean nannies. James Whelan is a staunch anti-communist who worked for Scaife in California before he was recruited by Bo Hi Pak to be the first "front man" for the WT. William Cheshire used to work for Jesse Helms and Dan Quayle. No matter what the Moon followers will say to smear them, all three have impeccable conservative credentials and are highly credible. Unlike conservatives and liberals who rationalize they are not helping Moon by working with and supporting the WT, these three quit the games and showed "true principles" by standing up to the obvious.

http://tinyurl.com/lq7vqg

DaleSep 25, 2011 22:32:10 PM
The WT's is another example of how SMM is not a capitalist or a successful businessman as he is often presented. His operation is funded from a pool of money that includes cash fleeced from the Japanese. The paper has lost billions but it was obviously never intended to make a buck. Intel and influence is its game.

How many "free market capitalist" use unpaid labor to build their money losing operations? Moon selected 200 members to help start the WT. This http://tinyurl.com/3uyqncq is written one of those 200.

http://tinyurl.com/3uyqncq

DaleSep 25, 2011 22:49:53 PM
Hey Zeke, If you want to be in the Unification movement and be a slave, that is your choice. It is your responsibility to grow from being a slave to being an adult. Unification church members often start out in a humble position, no doubt as the marine, whom you or Dale enjoyed insulting in a previous post, did in boot camp. But the point of boot camp is not to be a slave to the military, it is actually to grow to be a responsible person. A marine who just follows orders is, ultimately, pretty useless. Now you criticize the Japanese Unification movement for where they are at (exploitative fund-raising). The character of the Japanese movement is influenced by the character of Japan; 50 years ago they were bowing to Tojo and having head chopping-off competitions in Nanking. I do not criticize the Japanese branch of the Unification movement unless it is to encourage them to grow, which I have faith they will. Why do I have faith? For one thing I am married to a Japanese woman by Rev. Moon. And my god-uncle died in WWII in Leyte fighting the Japanese. That represents something of the vision of Rev. Moon.
Richard EisenmanSep 26, 2011 12:46:56 PM
Richard I am finding your posts to be sad attempts to rationalize. But this - whom you or Dale enjoyed insulting in a previous post Since I am the only one who replied to him, I must say, that's a lie. Does deception always have to be involved? Please point out where I insulted him. I asked him if he did what he himself said he did which I find disgusting - not just that he did it, but disgusting that his superiors had to tell him to quit, he didn't know on his own. That's why I asked him if he still did it. I get that the Moon followers want to believe that any criticism of the group, based in fact, is persecution. It's a neat trick but it doesn't wash to the informed. I get that nothing will make you happy short of the world bowing DOWN to SMM but the fact that some people do not want that and are expressing that point is no need to lie about what they say. You went so far to say I "enjoyed" it. You have no clue what you are talking about. You are just making stuff up, one can only imagine to make yourself feel better.
DaleSep 26, 2011 21:52:23 PM
Dale: So Sgt Harding in a post below describes his spiritual journey and tours of Iraq and your response is an apparently sarcastic: ' Do you still order the troops under your command to cry out in unison "Rev. Moon is the MESSIAH! "' and you claim that Sgt Harding said this in 'that interview'. What are you talking about? I think apology from you to Sgt Harding would be appropriate.
Richard EisenmanSep 27, 2011 12:28:31 PM
RE, you know what really would be fun? You admitting you don't know what you are talking about and apologizing to me. But I do not expect that because you will rationalize some way around it. He did say it, then he talked about how after he was told to cut it out, he told his troops to check with him on the side. He knows he said it as I imagine other members on this board know also. Maybe you missed what Paul wrote below when he said that I "respond so often with so many facts to back (me) up."
DaleSep 27, 2011 19:14:16 PM
Dale accuses Sgt Justin Harding of ordering his platoon to "cry out in unison Rev Moon is the Messiah in that interview". So I google Justin Harding: http://tinyurl.com/7x3jpjb check it out if you really want to know about Sgt Harding. And I found Justin Harding on some cable TV program: Justin relates how he introduced himself to a platoon and told them he was going to tell them something important, namely "Rev Moon is the messiah". And to emphasize that he had them 'sound off' "Rev Moon is the messiah". Understand Marine culture, "Sound Off" is the habitual way Marine Sgts communicate to platoons; you repeat the point the Sgt made and your name. Why? because inattention may result in death. "Sounding off" is NOT ordering a chant in unison and has nothing to do with agreement concerning point made. Then Sgt Harding explains that he got in trouble for doing that because you aren't supposed to push your religion. The Marines do have unison chants called marching cadences (often obscene). So I will admit Dale is partly right about this, but he is slanting and distorting the facts of the matter in his interests.
Richard EisenmanSep 27, 2011 21:50:24 PM
Well, we knew you would dance around and rationalize to yourself a way around admitting the truth and apologizing. I found Justin Harding on some cable TV program It was on a Moon owned and operated TV show - it was your own propaganda. From your definition "sounding off" is worse than how I describe what he did. Thanks for clearing that up. Too bad you weren't man enough to just apologize.
DaleSep 28, 2011 09:34:30 AM
OK, Dale, so your assumption is that I am part of some Unification Movement Borg so I must know "all the propaganda". I never heard of Sgt Harding until he made his post to which you replied "Do you still order your troops to cry out in unison 'Rev. Moon is the Messiah'". It sounded to me like you were being totally sarcastic. So I googled and found out about Sgt Harding. Sounds like a nice guy to me, and on that point he admitted in 'that interview' that he was out of line. My sense of Harding is that he wanted his platoon to know where he was at; in particular that he was going to be upfront that he is a religious guy. So what is your problem that you need to crow about it? By the way, I wonder how many platoon Sgts have had their platoon sound off "Jesus is Lord" in a similar context. I suppose that would be 'disgusting' to you as well?
Richard EisenmanSep 28, 2011 23:35:57 PM
so your assumption is that I am part of some Unification Movement Borg so I must know "all the propaganda". No. That was plain when you started attacking me when you had no clue what you were talking about. It sounded to me like you were being totally sarcastic. How often do you demand an apology from someone critical when something they say "sounds" a certain way? that you need to crow about it? Haven't you distorted what I have said enough? I find the whole thing sad AND disgusting. have had their platoon sound off "Jesus is Lord" in a similar context. I suppose that would be 'disgusting' to you as well? Very much so. Any person in authority in the military has no business proselytizing to the people under their command. Period. What's sad is they have to be told. Why is it that Moon followers so often just grasp for some person doing the same wrong as an excuse for them doing so also? Does it really satisfy? I thought you had a living breathing "messiah" to guide you? The part of your answer about how he just wanted to let them know he was a "religious guy" was just more rationalizing wrongdoing. A pattern one sadly sees with Moon followers a lot.
DaleSep 29, 2011 08:36:08 AM
Technical note: . . . The UC is a large movement but not huge, especially in the English-speaking world. It's not hard to discover there is not, and never was, any member named "Zeke Hayashi." This is probably the same man, who's got a real flair for catchy fake names, as "Frank Frivilous." (His spelling not mine.) . . . I read in American Journalism Review that most public media forums now insist on the use of a proven real name, often plus a verified email address, even if that's not posted. . . . Meanwhile, being anonymous for no reason only serves to drop the legitimacy of those who hide behind a mask. (Also note, many vehement UC opponents do use their real names, and none of them have high fences much less bodyguards. There's no need!)
Paul Carlson Sep 29, 2011 16:10:28 PM
"legitimacy of those who hide behind a mask." You mean like how the Moon organization has done for decades as Hyung Jin castigated you for doing? You know, when he said you should all quit hiding behind the front group names like Universal Peace Federation and Womens Federation for World Peace and all the other hundreds of front names you have used to seduce the unsuspecting. Reading you complaining about people hiding behind fake names is really rich. Which brings us back the question. At the very start of the NPR Moon propaganda show, the uninformed host introduced the Moon reps as being with the FFWPU. As YOU know, Hyung Jin very specifically named Famfed as one of the names you should QUIT using to hide behind. Why didn't the Moon reps stop the host and tell him that you were going to quit deceiving people with the front names? Could it be because it's a hard habit to break?
DaleSep 29, 2011 17:07:02 PM
OK, here we are at the center of the enlightened world, the USA, analyzing this crazy international moonie subculture with our superior intellectual skills. Of course in our USA culture we have over 2,000,000 warehoused in prison, 10's of millions on behaviour modification drugs, 10's of millions on illegal drugs and 40,000 dead on the streets of mexico to keep those drugs coming, $500,000 per family your share of the national debt, 100's of billions of taxpayer money routinely wasted (Solyndra, bailouts, etc), banks basically enslaving millions in endless manipulations because 'greed is good'. And when the "natives are restless" in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere, the solution is pick one or more of: dump bombs, bags of flour or sacks of $100 dollar bills. And the moonies are going around the world telling people that the purpose of the Lord of the Second Advent is to perform inter-racial/cultural/national marriage as a way to peace. Obviously that is crazier than a smart bomb plus collateral damage from 30,000 feet.
Richard EisenmanSep 30, 2011 22:02:38 PM
RE, Does it hurt trying to connect so much unrelated material? The world is in a mess and Moon says he's the answer so why would anyone question him? purpose of the Lord of the Second Advent is to perform inter-racial/cultural/national marriage as a way to peace. Says who? Says Moon who has no proof he speaks for G-d, none. You know I have read SMM say hundreds of times that "exchange marriage," as he calls it, is G-d's main desire. Can you tell me why then did SMM match ALL of his own children to other Koreans? I am not talking about anyone else's immediate children, just SMM's. He is such a transparent phony. Not one of his own children did he match to say, an African or an American, not one. Of course he didn't allow American district directors in the USA until 2006, so we know how little he thinks of Americans. He did put Jenkins up as a front for the overall movement in the USA but does anyone honestly think Jenkins made any important moves absent Yang's OK? Is it that SMM is just a huge hypocrite? A fraud? Or is it as many former members attest, that no matter how many people he may seduce from differing backgrounds, he believes Koreans are the master race?
DaleOct 2, 2011 17:16:15 PM
Dale, Its an unfolding evolutionary process. I believe one of In Jin Moon's kids is now married to a non-oriental; from Finland I think. And In Jin Moon has certainly spoken on numerous occasions a desire to transcend her Korean background in certain respects. There maybe others who are married to Japanese, which to us would not seem very cross-cultural, but there is a huge gap Korean vs Japanese.
Richard EisenmanOct 2, 2011 18:25:55 PM
I have been reading all the comments here, mostly by members and it's interesting to me how you all so desperately defend Rev. Moon and the church. It seems as if you are mostly trying to convince yourselves that you are part of something worthwhile...because surely, you must be painfully aware by now, of the serious problems the church is facing with all the lawsuits and internal division, especially the division within the so called "true" family. That must have beem the hardest blow, the hardest thing to digest, since "The True Family" was supposed to be sinless, and the cornerstone of the Kingdom of Heaven. I wish that would have been addressed in the interview, because sadly, THAT is as much part of the reality of the Unification Church these days as anything else mentioned here by the members. I understand why all the members here are so desperately hanging on to the positive things about the church...the other side of it is too painful to even think about, isn't it?
Anna LindstromSep 22, 2011 10:11:52 AM
Ms. Lindstrom, I regard myself as a unificationist. It was something of a relief to me to see the Moon children grow to adults with human conflicts and it clearly evident that they have responsibility to resolve those issues. And, after all, the process of resolving sibling conflict is at the center of Unification theology's interpretation of Providential history: Cain-Able, Jacob-Esau, Jesus-John the Baptist (lets not get into the theory of the virgin birth here ...). Namely if there is a resolution of the conflict, God's providence moves forward; the reconciliation of Jacob and Esau being a victory in God's providence and setting a foundation for Moses and Jesus. I understand that for many on this forum such topics in religious history are an archaic irrelevancy. Anyway, I am not expecting people on this forum to agree with Rev. Moon's approach to world problems: that the root problem is the spiritual problem. But it would be nice if the people on this forum gained some deeper realization that Rev. Moon actually believes what he believes and that this is not all some con game played by morons. I recommend Mr. Breen's book: http://tinyurl.com/7f5rs2x
Richard EisenmanSep 22, 2011 22:48:37 PM
Richard, I am a believer too in the furthering of God's work through resolving conflicts and growing our character. I can sympathize with how hard it must be for the members to witness about unity when there is so much blatant disunity and conflict within the church right now. It must be quite embarrassing.
Anna LindstromSep 23, 2011 07:31:17 AM
Einsenman - You sir are pathetic. What you have isn't faith, it's a kind of disintegrating hope that you haven't wasted your life believing in the megalomaniacal rantings of a sociopath. The story of the UC would be amusing (along the lines of daytime soap operas), if it didn't participate in the destruction of so many people's lives. It's an abusive and disgusting organization led by narcissistic millionaires who have an inflated sense of self worth. The UC makes a mockery of all religious organizations.
Z. HayashiSep 26, 2011 14:20:37 PM
I was a member for 30 years. I was not brainwashed, had many wonderful experiences, was inspired by the vision, made lifelong friends but when I discovered the hypocracy among the leaders, the internal corrupt politics in the church, the unexcusable beahvior of some of the Moon family members, the division within the church, the internal squabbles and to top it off, inconsistencies in the teachings, then I knew it was time to move on. I am grateful for the good things and really angry about what goes on today in the church. It ought to be called The Division Church instead.
Anna LindstromSep 22, 2011 09:50:42 AM
Ms. Lindstrom, I appreciate your concerns. If you were a UC member for all those years, then surely you are well aware of the numerous charities worldwide, and ecumenical work, and efforts on behalf of political and religious freedom, that Unificationists have carried out, over many decades. More than ever, today. Is there some "embarrassing" division? It's not nice, and then again. EVERY religion in history has experienced a 'succession crisis.' I wrote of this in the Unification News many years go. Now, both the UC and UCI factions are competing to see --- who can do the most good! Educational and service programs, social and ethnic unity, and more.
Paul CarlsonSep 24, 2011 13:39:58 PM
"But it would be nice if the people on this forum gained some deeper realization that Rev. Moon actually believes what he believes and that this is not all some con game played by morons." Richard Eisenman  I have no doubt that Moon believes what he says, but this doesn't mean that the UC isn't "some con game played by morons." On the contrary, it confirms it.
Zeke HayashiSep 24, 2011 16:44:03 PM
Zeke, that is your opinion, and I shall respect that. I usually find that newfound theological differences have a very personal basis, and I am sorry that (probably) some unfortunate past experience has made you so bitter. Look objectively. Unificationist marriages have, on average and carefully verified, a better than 80% success rate. Despite vastly different races and cultures coming together, this holds true for more than 50 years and counting. As Jesus said, "By their fruits ye shall know them," and that is a wondrous fruit indeed.
Paul CarlsonSep 25, 2011 17:28:29 PM
The "ecumenical work" consists of seducing religious leaders into joining Moon's efforts to make the United Nations into theocratically run body - the creation of the Kingdom of Moon. It's the same goal that the 70s congressional investigation revealed was the primary goal: http://tinyurl.com/3elykcu The apparent contradictions in many of the activities of the Moon Organization are explained by Moon's overriding religious goal--to establish a worldwide "theocracy," that is, a world order which would abolish separation of church and state and be governed by the immediate direction of God. ... The UC and numerous other religious and secular organizations headed by Sun Myung Moon constitute essentially one international organization. This organization depends heavily upon the interchangeability of its components and upon its ability to move personnel and financial assets freely across international boundaries and between businesses and nonprofit organizations.. Among the goals of the Moon Organization is the establishment of a worldwide government in which the separation of church and state would be abolished and which would be governed by Moon and his followers.
DaleSep 27, 2011 11:48:26 AM
Now, both the UC and UCI factions are competing to see --- who can do the most good! Paul, am I mistaken or hasn't SMM and others sent out memos stating that Kwak is Satan and has control of Hyun Jin? Hasn't your "messiah" ordered that none of you should support what Hyun Jin is doing because it is wrong and not of "TP"? In fact he is in direct disobedience? Do you support disobeying your messiah? Didn't he order everyone who worked for UCI to quit or leave the businesses? I don't get your point. Are you what they call a "cafeteria" Unificationist? Just pick and choose what part of the "messiah's" claims you want to buy into?
DaleSep 27, 2011 11:58:31 AM
"service programs" The congressional investigation says the Moon organization uses service as a hook to eventually gain control. http://tinyurl.com/3elykcu Wood described Moon's technique for achieving political control and influence: "You make yourself available to serve, and you serve that man with whatever it is. You carry out his orders. You carry out his directives until he trusts you absolutely, whether it is political work, economic work, or social work. Then finally when your services have become indispensable, then you begin to dictate policy. If he deviates from the policy you have set, you withdraw your support, and he is powerless. So he has no choice but to follow you. Basically, it is 'I am going to serve you to death,' approach."
DaleSep 27, 2011 12:11:06 PM
Dale, I suppose you are either Mr. Hassan (being deceptive!) or a colleague of his, now reiterating that 40-year laundry list of nasty accusations, recited from a memory still full of seething resentment. Very few believe that stuff now, especially that ludicrous "actual Moon rulership" line. Since the reality has moved so far beyond that, the numbers of those "in the know" of decades-old paranoia has shrunk to a mere handful. : . . Zeke, obviously you are paying some attention. You haven't 'moved on,' at least not far enough to fully claim a secular life you now proclaim is superior. Maybe you missed the part where no (so far as I've heard yet) UC members were lost in the tsunami, while several were miraculously rescued from the water. Also, how Hyung Jin donated a large sum for tsunami relief, while reports from the J-UC (about donation requests) are highly disputed. : : : Speaking of real lives, recall how our brother Capt. Manuel Liba rescued fourteen US Air flt 1549 passengers from the Hudson River, as the second boat on scene.
Paul CarlsonSep 27, 2011 18:35:45 PM
This reply works for what Paul says: One thing is for sure. Since Hyung Jin admits and anyone who observes knows, your organization has used deception throughout its history to build this foundation by "hiding" behind front names. Since the foundation of the Moon movement has been built using deception - no matter what great person the followers may point to as working with them, no matter which front group they sell as working for God's will, no matter who you show off as another pelt on your belts. the conquests were made using deception somewhere along the line and you all know it. No matter what you say or do, you will never change the fact that the foundation was built through deceiving people. Hyung Jin said that all fronts have a simple purpose, to promote Moon as the Messiah. This of course makes fool or a liar out of Pres. Bush 41 for he kept telling the press that shilling for Moon's WFWP front was not shilling for Moon as the messiah. The UPF is another grand example of a Moon front that used deception. Their rep told the media and potential marks that the UPF was not run by the UC, that it had no more ties to the UC than any group. This of course is another lie.
DaleSep 27, 2011 19:30:04 PM
while reports from the J-UC (about donation requests) are highly disputed. What "donations"? Do you mean members in Japan being squeezed again or do you mean these "donations"? The "$1.3 Billion from 32,283 Cases against the UC from Japanese Members" http://tinyurl.com/6jfskre or these http://tinyurl.com/3w6t6z9 or these http://tinyurl.com/4xkp8ze
DaleSep 27, 2011 19:46:58 PM
I am sorry that (probably) some unfortunate past experience has made you so bitter

Zeke, Paul is flashing one of the more disgusting techniques I have seen other Moon followers deploy. When a former member takes the time to inform people of what they believe to be true about the Moon movement, when they take the time to educate the unsuspecting Moon targets, then they are accused as such. There is only one (probable) answer. You had a "bad" experience and now you are a "bitter" person. No one needs to pay any attention to you for you are "bitter." Doesn't matter how many facts from personal experience you may bring to the table. It is one of the techniques they have helped infuse into the USA's political system. Like the Moon funded Mr. Dolan, his claim to fame was that he is called the father of the individual political attack ad. Now there's some fruit for you! Zeke, don't pay any attention to Paul, he's just bitter that you don't bow DOWN to Moon. James Whelan was accused of being "disgruntled" when admitted the obvious about the WT. http://tinyurl.com/8x82oes

http://tinyurl.com/7ufq33w

DaleSep 27, 2011 20:15:50 PM
"Maybe you missed the part where no (so far as I've heard yet) UC members were lost in the tsunami, while several were miraculously rescued from the water." Hi Paul - You know, I did miss that part, and I would like to point out the obvious, that God played a role in making sure that that no UC members were lost in the tsunami, because they will be sorely needed to build the kingdom of heaven on earth (via healthy "donations" to Hyun Jin Nim, or whomever the UC's autocrat of the moment is). Okay, I'm outa here. This is enough. It's obvious to me that although you may be sincere, you (and Eisenmann et al) are seriously mentally ill. Remember that if and when you are ready there is help out there for you. You are not alone.
Z. HayashiSep 28, 2011 12:18:59 PM
I want to offer my view on this issue. I have a very negative opinion of the Moon organization which I believe is quite underhanded. I live in Orange County, NY where Moon developed a horse farm. I have experienced first hand, many negative aspects of Moon's organization in my town. These range from moonies roaming the streets trying to brainwash young men and women to join their group thereby stealing them from their families, to shady land development proposals for so called "schools". I have seen homes purchased that were subsequently condemned due to lack of upkeep, moonies becoming town board members wasting valuable taxpayers money, to members pushing Moon's messages at meetings wasting the supervisor's time.
Susan MillerSep 22, 2011 09:23:24 AM
HaHaHa! Thanks for your perceptive opinion Ms. Miller. You can now well imagine what the residents of Las Vegas are in for.
Frank FrivilousSep 22, 2011 10:39:29 AM
Ms. Miller, Interesting observations. Roaming the streets of your town, looking to grab people? I think you have horse riding Unificationists mixed up with some zombie movie you saw.
Paul CarlsonSep 24, 2011 13:43:02 PM
Paul - By their fruits ye shall know them." Well put. The UC church in the U.S. was built on untaxed monies made by MFT teams and funneled into failed UC businesses run by Japanese and Korean "leaders," many of whom who were in the U.S. illegally. The story of Moon's "true children" reads like a comic book of spoiled rich brats who abused members and abused their positions, when they weren't embezzling or snorting coke, or beating their wives, or selling small arms to a gun-happy Americans. Some fruit, eh? yrs, Zeke Hayashi
Z. HayashiSep 25, 2011 21:37:22 PM
I was an ex-member and contrary to what's been said here, the UC really is not the glamor it pretends to be. It has a dark history and now is trying to erase that past and create this "One Family Under God" facade. If you listen to moonies speak, they refer to non-moonies literally as outsiders. The children (I was born into this remember) are referred to as "blessed children", and moonies believe their blood line has been changed. Sounds like Hitler right? The Moon's are BILLIONAIRES and most members live in basically shacks while working for low wages. Here are some good resources: howwelldoyouknowyourmoon.tumblr.com donewithmoon.tumblr.com (testimonies) The Moon family is far from true, let alone "good". THEY THREATENED those sites because they were publishing and using their freedom of speech. Do you support this kind of an organization? http://howwelldoyouknowyourmoon.tumblr.com/post/704794089/even-kook-jin-moon-was-in-fear http://www.tumblr.com/photo/1280/689333245/1/tumblr_l3vx34SHtj1qcq878 Sun Myung Moon has several illegitimate children and a few of his children have publicly left his "church". If this isn't evidence enough, what is? moonies@hmamail.com
DanSep 22, 2011 07:17:46 AM
Let me put it to you this way. SMM isn't bowing to anyone or thing. I think you know the bigger point of this but you are going to act like it isn't there. It isn't just the bowing down before SMM, which is not as you couch it and you know it, and yes, that is disgusting. It's the constant, and I mean constant, drum beat of how Jesus is subpar to SMM. I know you are putting on new face, the re-branding efforts, but it's still a very common theme in your movement. A lot of people have claimed to be the messiah over the years, but none that claim credibility, that I know of, spend so much time trying to convince their followers Jesus is far less of a "messiah" than they are. Moon's son dies and he becomes the "new Messiah" and Jesus is now the "old Messiah." Moon's son is the new Commander in heaven. Jesus serves Moons son.
daleSep 21, 2011 22:08:14 PM
sorry this was to be a reply for "Richard Eisenman Sep 19, 2011 02:16:19 AM"
DaleSep 21, 2011 22:11:36 PM
Hey Dale, Let me remind you that the conversation was about whatever Korean spiritualists were reporting in their visions of the spirit world. These stories about Jesus bowing to Rev. Moon's son, (and also about Buddha bowing to Jesus mentioned), are, of course, speculative. And certainly I would take anything coming from a spirtualist with a grain of salt. But if one agrees with the idea that the Messianic mission cannot be completed by a man alone (as Jesus was) but rather requires a man and woman united, then perhaps one can understand the heart of the spiritualist who experiences a vision in which Jesus bows to Rev. & Mrs. Moon's deceased son in the spirit world. This concept of the Messianic mission is also related to the Unification concept of God not being a single guy, but rather male and female united. To some people, this is a very progressive point of view. Now about 'SMM not bowing to anyone'. Well, he certainly bows a lot to God. By the way, in Korean society its customary to bow down to the elder. SMM is pretty old, like 91. I spent a lot of time in Korea and bowed down to a lot of elders. So not so weird to me. And I have a Japanese wife. They do a lot of bowing too.
Richard EisenmanSep 21, 2011 23:40:24 PM
Sorry for the confusion, I posted the first part of my comment in this, the wrong place. I don't think you read this. Dale Sep 21, 2011 22:23:43 PM
DaleSep 22, 2011 01:34:43 AM
I'll tell you what is weird Mr. Eisenman....pretending that the revival of an Oriental Royal Court system is "progressive" and trying to impose it upon educated westerners.
Frank FrivilousSep 22, 2011 10:46:51 AM
Hi Frank Frivilous, FYI Unificationists only bow to Rev. Moon. They do not bow to Rev. Moon and even kiss his hand if they are close enough ! , as do Catholics to the Pope. You can see pictures of Catholics bowing if you google 'catholic devil worship photos'. Not sure how 'oriental' catholics might be although some new-agers claim Jesus travelled in India! And I have great respect for the Catholics. :) - Richard E.
Richard EisenmanSep 22, 2011 12:50:19 PM
Interesting diversion Richard. Why not explain to our audience that the members are expected to prostrate themselves completely to the entire Moon family photo on a daily basis. It is also recommended now by Moon's own son that they bow thousands of times to a golden statue of Moon for the remission of sins. Don't tell me you are a backslider?!!!!
Frank FrivilousSep 23, 2011 10:22:29 AM
Thank you Richard for making such a correct explanations of pointed questions. My respects
Tatiana TsukadaSep 23, 2011 12:08:29 PM
Thanks Frank F. for acknowledging that Catholics bowing to the Pope and kissing his hand is an interesting diversion. Anyway, about golden statues, no I have not personally seen a golden statue of Rev Moon in any Unification church building, but after you mentioned it I went ahead and googled 'golden statue moon' and found a picture of a small golden statue of Rev and Mrs. Moon that is apparently on a shrine in their son Hyung Jin Moon's prayer room or office. And also a picture of Hyung Jin Moon and his wife, the leaders of the International branch of the Unification movement, bowing. I would not be surprised (or shocked) if Hyung Jin Moon had bowed 1000 times in his prayer room. You might find it interesting that Hyung Jin Moon, during his younger years, lived as a Buddhist monk and probably also bowed 1000 times to an image of Buddha, such an image being the center point of any Buddhist monastery. And perhaps you would find it interesting that repetitive physical acts of devotion are common in oriental disciplines, spiritual, or otherwise.... remember Karate Kid 1 ? That oriental despot Mr. Miyagi ordered The Kid "wax on, wax off, wax on, wax off ...." :)
Richard EisenmanSep 23, 2011 22:56:25 PM
Richard, I don't think you saw this reply from the start of this bowing conversation. ... Considering that these spirit messages are the backbone of your org, why are you acting like they are not to be trusted? Isn't scamming people by claiming that by paying the Moon family one can have their lineage cleaned up in the spirit world still a primary money raker? By the same people who get these messages? Why, whenever Jesus is being channeled, why is He so often made out to be this sad sack whose only wish is that He hadn't inspired His followers to be so supportive of Him instead of jumping on the SMM bandwagon? Hyung Jin said he spent a decade fretting over why his father's "love" was greater than what Jesus or anyone else taught. Why does Hyung Jin go on all the time about how SMM's "love" is better than anything Jesus came up with? Why is Jesus constantly depicted like this? Here's a typical sampling. From "Blessing and the Ideal Family" we get, "To bear children rooted in God and True Parents is more exalted than Mary's bearing the Messiah. The blessed children born of you are better than Jesus, for whom God prepared 4,000 years."
DaleSep 25, 2011 23:08:39 PM
Dale, no I actually don't think spiritual messages are at the backbone of the Unification movement. But I am not a very 'spiritual' person and perhaps others have a different opinion. But I do think that spiritual experiences are a reality of human experience existing in a continuum including dreams, visions and even what is commonly called 'intuition'. My thinking on this point is perhaps in the spirit of Carl Jung and William James. Even in science, for example, the chemist Friedrich Kekulé discovered the shape of the benzene molecule after a vision of a snake seizing its own tail. I don't think any credence can be given to a spiritual message unless there is some give and take with the heart and intellect. And the test for truth is not 'literal truth'. I am no fundamentalist; I am willing to accept much religious discourse as a sort of poetry.
Richard EisenmanOct 1, 2011 00:40:20 AM
Was this show sponsored by the Unification Church? It sounds like an infomercial. Maybe the NPR affiliates on the East Coast are more discriminating. I couldn't detect any journalist detachment in this program.
Kiril RoianovSep 21, 2011 18:44:42 PM
Times are rough and public radio has to survive somehow.
frank frivilousSep 21, 2011 22:39:57 PM
It's a great boon to the Las Vegas economy! Given Moon's well documented asian organized crime ties ( see Rober Parry's articles) Las Vegas is sending a clear message. hello Asian Crime Lords , please to bring your ill gotten profits to Vegas. We do good launder!
LouisSep 21, 2011 17:50:05 PM
I honestly wish they wouldn't give any forum to that lowlife parasite Hassan. Let him fade away into the oblivion of stupidity and obsolescence where he belongs. He should be so grateful for ever having met the Church, because without that he wouldn't even be able to make a living! POS that he is. I used to work as a lecturer/workshop director in the UC for years and we got a lot of laughs out of reading the idiocy that he wrote about those workshops in his "Mind Control" book. What a loser!
pfnolanSep 21, 2011 11:41:25 AM
pfnolan...take the logic and your choice adjectives and replace Hassan's name with SM Moon's and you will have a mirror image! Thank you!
Frank FrivilousSep 21, 2011 20:56:54 PM
Tell me, when you are handing out copies of that propaganda "autobiography" are you honest with the potential mark? Do you tell them the book is a witnessing tool "True Parents" gave you to get them to accept Moon in his role as the messiah? Do you tell them Jesus now bows down to your Messiah? Do you tell them that your goal is to get them to read the book which is meant to start them down the road to subjugating their lives to the Moon family? Or were you deceptive and just tell them he was a "peace" activist? You know what Hyung Jin says, you are not being honest when you sell him as such. Can you tell me anything your organization has done that is not rooted in deception? Since the entire organization has been funded from a pool of cash fleeced from the Japanese, I don't think you can.
DaleSep 21, 2011 10:29:40 AM
Note that none of the Moon followers deny that they teach that Jesus serves Moon's dead son in the afterlife or that Jesus, Muhammad(PBUH) and all past saints and sages bow down before Sun Myung Moon. The host kept trying to define your movement as if it were Christian, why didn't your reps tell the host the above for it is clearly an important distinction? Why did your reps mislead the host by not being up front about that? When Hyung Jin admitted to the media that you were NOT a Christian movement, he said there was some "misunderstanding" about that. haha Is there any doubt WHY people have that "misunderstanding"? Maybe it's because you have not told the full truth about that for 50 years. You know, like when you played that scam of telling the press Moon was only declaring himself to be "anointed" like any minister, not that he was claiming to be THE Messiah and G-d incarnate. That deception helped you seduce the ACLC ministers. You can rationalize when deceiving people that you are simply waiting for them to be ready the truth all you want, the truth is you deceive people. What do you call it, your "culture of deception"?
DaleSep 21, 2011 10:08:13 AM
Hello Dale, Please step back and take a few deep breaths. How well do you comprehend the abysmal state of humankind - that is if you care? Add to that the tens of thousands of years in which unimaginable acts of hatred have been perpetrated against God. For those who believe in the concept of the Messiah as God's ultimate problem solver, one would have to believe that even with God himself having your back, you have one heck of a job. Most people have a challenging time keeping their life and a family together, let alone relating to someone with such a difficult responsibility and unique personality. Like him or not, we will most certainly have a challenging time dealing with his ways. He will do and say things which are not even remotely understood. Ponder the potential for misunderstanding and what could result& then breathe and breathe again.
RobSep 21, 2011 15:20:48 PM
Note all the Moon followers posting about being "proud Unificationists." This just happens to be exactly what their new leader has told them they had to start doing. Tell people you are "proud" and get on the net and flood it with BS. They lost membership in Korea from 60s to 2005. From about 16,000 to about 14,000 - they admit this when not taking to the press. Moon has declared that Korea is G-d's sovereign nation and the Moon followers are His new "chosen people" because the Jews and Christians failed Him. So in God's sovereign nation, the home of the "messiah" they lost members over 40 years? The Korean "church" was subsidized with cash fleeced from the Japanese - that is until recently when a former director of the KCIA started doing their books. The host acting like there are millions of followers shows once again he had no clue what he talking about. Millions of followers is as big of a crock as your reps letting the host's questions frame yours as a Christian religion. What a scam.
DaleSep 21, 2011 09:25:50 AM
I knew Steve Hassen back in the mid 70's. He was my group leader for a few months before he had a car accident that landed him in the hospital. While recoverying from injuries he was "deprogrammed" by his family with the aid of a criminal enterprise. I was older than Steve and impressed with the kind of person he was. Rev Moon and the Unification Church attracted some of the best and the brightest, as it still does and for good reason. Steve fell in with the anti religion crowd and has been struggling to sort out his 2 and a half year experience with the UC ever since. It's just that now, as he has for over 30 years, makes his living attacking people and their faith. He or his close associates are trotted out anytime someone in the media needs an "expert" to make a stink by spraying out a bunch of negitive opinions. They then walk on their merry way to the next media oppurtunity. I have known Rev Moon and his wife personally for the past 30 years. It has been my greatest honor. I am far better off today for my relationship with them and my association with the church. Rev. Moon and the UC will be good for LV...wait and see.
RobSep 21, 2011 08:47:43 AM
Hey Rob are you kicking it with your personal friend Sun Moon and Hak Ja in Vegas? Shooting craps, playing Black Jack, hit a few slots then go see a show? I am so glad that Moon has finally found his element in Las Vegas but I wonder what he intends to do with his billion dollar palace in Chump Pyung Lake, S. Korea? Oh well, if the "spiritual" sales fall off he can always turn it into a casino.
Frank FrivilousSep 21, 2011 21:36:31 PM
Rev. Moon's teachings and his daughter's ministry Lovin Life have inspired and challenged me to become the best Marine I can (inside and professionally). I have served 7 tours of duty. (2 to SE Asia, 4 to Irag, and 1 to Afghanistan) I have seen life & death up close & personal. This developed an intense personal relationship with Jesus and He opened my eyes. This is the breaking news everyone: Sun Myung Moon and Hak Ja Han is the True Parents of mankind, the Second Coming we have been searching for. This is my testimony to you all. Steve and Demian for many years only saw from a secular view Rev Moon. Demian had a similar spiritual awakening to mine. Praise God! So come check it out!!! As Steve says "You will find they are very nice people." We are good folks, who love God & family & would like to do business & support your ongoing service work in the community. Don't be scared by Steve's fear. I offer you my testimony and heartfelt invitation to work with Rev. Moon, Lovin Life ministries, and his business networks. Promise the only thing I might try to recruit you for is service in the Marine Corps that is if I think you can hack! Semper Fi "Always Faithful" Vegas
Gunnery Sergeant Justin M Harding USMCSep 21, 2011 07:49:34 AM
Do you still order the troops under your command to cry out in unison "Rev. Moon is the MESSIAH!" as you said you did in that interview? That is disgusting.
DaleSep 21, 2011 09:03:57 AM
Your Radio comments are great, may you invite me toan interview? I joined Unification Movement in the 80's Iam married with kids all blessings by Rev. Dr. Moon, the best L S A historic man alive
Moses RusaSep 21, 2011 03:06:20 AM
Everyone's being so nice here, but I won't be, rest assured. I don't suffer fools like Hassan gladly. Steven Hassan is a wanker. Yes, I said WANKER. Don't give me any crap about being civil, either. HASSAN IS ANYTHING BUT CIVIL, and could use a little of his own wretched medicine. I ripped him a new one on a couple YouTube sites, and he bailed, cuz he didn't know what to with me. I joined the UC 35 years ago, and I'm not STUPID, Hassan. I've studied every major religion on EARTH, and Rev. Moon's Principle is head and shoulders above ANYTHING out there. You can rag on the fallen nature of members all you want, but the Divine Principle remains UNASSAILABLE.
ConanTheRepublicanSep 19, 2011 22:07:27 PM
Sorry Conan but by your own admission you are stupid and uncivil. The DP probably never originated with Moon and is in the process of being revised right now by his own children let alone qualified theologians. Hassan never actually ragged on anyone's "fallen nature" except for Moon's. Advertising your political affiliation isn't helping your case either.
Frank FrivilousSep 21, 2011 21:20:42 PM
HEY, "Aunty"--here's yer soundbite. Read 'em and WEEP...all from Uncle Albert: The cosmic religious experience is the strongest and noblest driving force behind scientific research. Science without religion is crippled, and religion without science is blind. "I want to know God's thoughts--the rest are details".
ConanTheRepublicanSep 19, 2011 22:02:21 PM
Well later in life Einstein is quoted as saying there is no personal god aka one that cares about us as individuals. So if there is no personal god, then what's the point of church / organized religion? It's still a liability to be an Atheist. If you are running for US President, declaring yourself an Atheist is doom. So many people fear death and want there to be an afterlife - religions "bank" on this.
aunty palinSep 20, 2011 11:49:27 AM
Quite the spirited debate! Those engaged in it appear to be mainly Unificationists (like myself) and 4 detractors of those 4 all seem to be Atheists and particularly nasty ones at that. The most vehement being Steve Hassan (aka Dale). Ironically Steve beats the drum over and over that somehow (with the myriad projects of the Unification movement) unless we proclaim in whatever we do that we are Moonies we are somehow being deceptive. Steve had his former faith ripped from him through a violent kidnapping and has been seething in resentment ever since. Needless to say I dont appreciate his comments but I hold no ill will toward him. He (and the other 3) must be very unhappy people. In addition I am so proud of my brothers & sisters some of whose names I recognize Scott Dolfay (Seattle)
Scott DolfaySep 19, 2011 10:49:11 AM
Hey "Dale," if you are still reading the comments posted here, would you please tell us if you are really Steve Hassan in disguise? Thank you.
JohnSep 20, 2011 19:16:30 PM
I am not Steve.
DaleSep 21, 2011 09:28:50 AM
Thank you for your excellent interview with our Unificationist leaders in Nevada. Rev.Moon is truly one of the greatest living visionaries and peacemakers in the world.I find it pathetic though, to include Steve Hassan who has not been involved with our movement for several years and devotes his life to destroying the faith of others included in this interview. Would you have included a Nazi leader if you did a show on Jews to try to discredit the beauty of Judiasm? Certainly, the atheistic and anti-religious Steve Hassan fits into the same catagory. And as a Jew and a Unificationist, I find it very isheartening. Rev. Moon will succeed in Las Vegas, and throughout the world because he is 'living for the sake of others' and has the courage and vision to believe as human beings we are 'ONE FAMILY UNDER GOD', despite race, religion, or national background. He will die trying to bring the Kingdom of Heaven on earth as Jesus predicted and to bring goodness to Las Vegas. Let us pray that indeed he will be successful in his lifetime. E.Iversen Former Public Relations Director American Family Coalition Washington, D.C. Paris, France
E. IversenSep 19, 2011 00:31:05 AM
And again, judge not, that ye not be judged. A critic is their own worst enemy. Without love, one is only a clanging bell. It is not about money, power, ego-boosting, debate winning, etc.... When it all comes down to it, it IS all about harmony, love and peace. And we will all be absorbed into the Truth that spiritual world will bring. Until that time, let us live with love for one another regardless of our differing beliefs. May God bless you and your families! Peace
Linda HaibaraSep 18, 2011 14:14:00 PM
I am in Sydney Australia but I try to pray for America, my home, all of the time. I am so happy that we have such wonderful brothers representing our church and who are helping to pave the way for a successful movement in Las Vegas. Thank you for your wonderful answers on the interview. All I can say is Excellent.
Debra BruceSep 18, 2011 14:09:28 PM
I have a lot of respect for Rev. Moon.
JosephSep 18, 2011 05:34:39 AM
To understand Reverend Moon, or anyone, you must have a prayer life. If you never prayed to know about this man sincerely to God in heaven, you will make a big mistake. You must pray...absolutely and you must be sincere, if you are not, then you will never find the answer. Do you pray and ask God to guide your thinking, putting your own opinions and judgements aside, or are you subjective and critical as the Pharisees were? Now where do you think the ones who crucified him are in the spirit world. Be careful to make sure your God agrees with your thinking. Did you fast to find out the truth?
Debra BruceSep 18, 2011 02:54:04 AM
Thank you to the two brothers who represented our church quite well. Although it is a good point of some immediate gains Las Vegas would receive, I would have suggested that it is the strong, committed, socially conservative families that would be the greatest asset for Las Vegas to receive. Unificationists are so committed to harmony, all races and religious back rounds. And it has born the most amazing fruits, the families that have emerged from these Holy Weddings. And thanks to the radio host, he seemed to have some sincerity.
Sita HiranoSep 17, 2011 19:11:38 PM
I am also a member of the Unification Church. I am 22 years old, married and living with my wife in California. Just want to stand up and represent. My parents were converted to the Unification Church and I grew up with this faith in my daily life. It's pretty awesome and diverse. When I hit my teens and started questioning things about my faith and what the purpose of my life was, I actually left this faith in order to find things out for my self. My parents were worried but they believed in me and told me that it was best to find things out for myself and what I want to do with my life. After searching deeper I found this faith for myself. I truly believe it has made me a happier and better person. I am proud of it. Thumbs Up! Rev. Moon rocks! All my friends know who I am and what I believe and they respect that. I respect the faith my friends have and how they made it their own. Just gotta say, REPRESENT! Be proud of who you are and what you believe. Find things out for yourself and be proud. Don't worry about people trying to put you down. You know best the things you experience first hand in life. Represent!
KaiSep 17, 2011 15:17:46 PM
Thanks little brother! Your comment touches some cords deep in my heart! Represent! And here we have the example of Demian Dunkley and yourself who were given "freedom of mind" in the way Steve Hassan is asking, and you chose True Parents!!! You proved the point!!! Thank you...
Bea ClyburnSep 18, 2011 02:29:24 AM
Great show KNPR, I am a proud member of the Unification movement, a second generation, and it improves my faith in American society to see a reasonable approach to a faith that propels millions to be role models in their families and communities. Rev. Moon has been a figure of great inspiration in my life and it is so great to see him begin to be appreciated by the general public. To Mr. Hassan, unfortunately negativity seems to have blinded him to the true preciousness of our movement. My mother also joined from a conservative Jewish background and she stood very firm when she was kidnapped by "deprogrammers" to leave the movement. From all I have seen and heard, it was these de-programmers who were the brainwashers, and worse, abusers of members of the Unification church. That all though is very much in the past here in America and it is so good that the controversy can be looked past so that the goodness of our movement can be offered to all of our friends and neighbors. I never liked Las Vegas (when I drove through the area) but who knows, God works in mysterious ways.
Arielle van DorstenSep 17, 2011 11:58:09 AM
"A successful person is one who can lay a firm foundation with the bricks that others throw at him/her" David Brinkley
BeaSep 17, 2011 07:49:57 AM
Live and Let LIVE!!!!! If this is not your cup of tea dear Steve Hassan, let it go already and find yourself your own life. You have dedicated so much of your physical life to add poison to a beautiful cause. Really... give it up already. Enjoy your grandkids if you were blessed with some, Start living your own life. To Life! LeHeim!
Zsu-SzuSep 16, 2011 21:33:29 PM
Tell me what man has done so much for the world? just one person in our history? just one. Is it just me? C'mon gimme a break. Tell me of a greater man, who has represented God's heart is there any greater, Nothing else matters, the only thing that matters, is the way of the master of love, love your parents,love your siblings,love your spouse,love your children,love your grandchildren love God Then tell me, please tell me, these are the words of God spoken through Reverend Moon
George MacDonaldSep 16, 2011 19:06:20 PM
Oh God save us from your representatives! George MacDonald, why couldn't you just join the Peace Corp. in order to make a difference in the world? Please get your head out of your ass and smell the coffee! Moon doesn't love you or anyone else for christsakes! What matters to him is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Frank FrivilousSep 22, 2011 10:58:23 AM
This isn't about Those who are for and those who are against, this is about our Heavenly Parent who cries and cries and cries, why don't we just love each other? put aside our differences give up that extra piece of cake for our starving brothers and sisters in Africa, God is crying out for you to be like him day in day out. Do you think God cares for your opinion, when your belly is full and you live like a king, as your brother's and sisters in Africa leave their kin to die in the gutter, because they don't have enough to eat? You must become everyone as God is everyone forget about being Ameican,British,for or against, my people are dying and all you can do is argue over theology. Now the Reverend Sun Myung Moon teaches me to be like this, no one else and I've got to ask myself where does this heart come from? It comes from God, the heart of God is expressed through my True Parents. Now please stop trying to prove your point and just love everyone
George MacDonaldSep 16, 2011 18:08:30 PM
This isn't about Those who are for and those who are against this is about our heavenly parent who cries and cries and cries why don't we just love each other? put aside our differences give up that extra piece of cake for our starving brothers and sisters in Africa God is crying out for you to be like him day in day out Do you think God cares for your opinion when your belly is full and you live like a king as your brother's and sisters in Africa leave their kin to die in the gutter because they don't have enough to eat? You must become everyone as God is everyone forget about being Ameican,British,for or against my people are dying and all you can do is argue over theology. Now the Reverend Sun Myung Moon teaches me to be like this, no one else and I've got to ask myself where does this heart come from. It comes from God, the heart of God is expressed through my true parents. Now please stop trying to prove your point and just love everone
George MacDonaldSep 16, 2011 17:51:41 PM
One thing is for sure. Since Hyung Jin admits and anyone who observes knows, your organization has used deception throughout its history to build this foundation by "hiding" behind front names. Since the foundation of the Moon movement has been built using deception - no matter what great person the followers may point to as working with them, no matter which front group they sell as working for Gods will, no matter who you show off as another pelt on your belts  the conquests were made using deception somewhere along the line and you all know it. No matter what you say or do, you will never change the fact that the foundation was built through deceiving people. Hyung Jin said that all fronts have a simple purpose, to promote Moon as the Messiah. This of course makes fool or a liar out of Pres. Bush 41 for he kept telling the press that shilling for Moons WFWP front was not shilling for Moon as the messiah. The UPF is another grand example of a Moon front that used deception. Their rep told the media and potential marks that the UPF was not run by the UC, that it had no more ties to the UC than any group. This of course is another lie.
DaleSep 16, 2011 13:05:16 PM
you really are trying to prove your point. are you getting paid or something? cant you see you're the only one on this page that is attacking. I <3 tp
anonymous Sep 17, 2011 07:16:37 AM
If that's what your opinion is, we respect it. Just think whatever you wan't to think. We are very happy and satisfied to our faith, to what Rev.Moon (our TRUE PARENTS) have taught us. We were once confused like you and now we found the right path. Just keep on seeking. Goodluck.
AnonymousSep 17, 2011 18:00:03 PM
I enjoyed the conversation. Great questions and answers. I know more of these kinds of interviews will follow.
GlendaSep 16, 2011 06:52:08 AM
I feel sorry for old Steve Hassan I wonder what he would say to Rev. Moons children? He is the best at painting a broad brush. Now he is using the UCI 's actions to tell a story on Rev. Moon.
andySep 15, 2011 13:41:27 PM
I joined Unification Church in 1975, before hearing the teachings. Had a powerful experience when the door opened, I saw Jesus, & suddenly the face changed to someone I had never seen before, Rev.Moon. From that moment I knew, he was the LSA, That very day, i had found the long last answer to my prayer,a way to help make this world a place where we can live as ONE family under God. Because of Rev Moon, I married my very best friend in the whole world! Seattle, WA.
Daniele Cohen Sep 15, 2011 09:08:56 AM
Thirty years ago Unificationists may have used the M word to describe themselves  as a reaction to being overwhelmingly slurred by that derogatory term  but since then the press has wised up and seldom refers to religious people using nasty names. It isnt politically correct. Using quotes that havent been germane for three decades just doesnt cut it, even in the detractor business. Isnt it a shame that Steven Hassan uses such a deception to justify his name-calling?
StefanSep 15, 2011 08:58:25 AM
I grew up in a rough area of Northern California. When I attended my first "Moonie" workshop I had a dream that Rev. Moon was a giant and was lifting me out of a dumpster. 33 years later I have a good life, a happy marriage and four great kids, because of Rev. Moon. Many of my old friends from school are in prison or dead from drug abuse. I am so grateful that Rev. Moon raised me out of the "dumpster" of my life.
Bob GauperSep 15, 2011 07:46:19 AM
Over thirty years ago, one chilly autumn night I sat on a grassy knoll near UNLV where I was a student and looked out upon the Las Vegas Strip. I was in turmoil. I had worked so hard to be here. I had saved my money, attended several Junior Colleges so that I could transfer as a junior and finally drove here from Lake Tahoe through the Nevada desert in my beloved old Chevy panel truck. My grades were good. I had found a job at a local hotel. But still something was missing. Ultimately I dropped out and headed back to my hometown in California, got a job, and sold most of my possessions. I then bought a backpack and some spiritual books, stuck my thumb out on highway 20, and started heading towards Alaska, or wherever fate would take me. I met one of Reverend Moons disciples near the wharf in Seattle where I had gone to purchase a ferry ticket to Alaska. This disciple invited me to an international evening, where a talk would be given, and dinner would be served. I attended the introductory program. The meal wasnt that great, but I enjoyed the talk and was impressed by the international group of people. Well I ended up going to their brain-washing weekend. I wasnt impr
Bob GauperSep 15, 2011 06:27:17 AM
I will admit that I agree with the Moonies in one respect - David Becker was admirably neutral.(as he usually is) IMHO this exemplifies *true* intellectual honesty - let the parties speak for themselves and we, the audience, listen and decide for ourselves. I have decided that the Moon family and misc. hangers on are laughing all the way to the bank. [cue Ship of Fools]
aunty palinSep 15, 2011 05:15:17 AM
No, not laughing all the way to the bank at all. Honestly, I'm just sitting here having breakfast with my family.
DemianSep 15, 2011 09:34:27 AM
Father Moons words are public and published. All the hangers on have paid the price to keep those words from being destroyed by Father Moons "critics". Steve was obviously annoyed that he had an objective host to moderate his histarics.
andySep 15, 2011 13:56:09 PM
"David Becker was admirably neutral." He may have been neutral but his show was not. It was propaganda. They let the Moon reps pass on deceptions like they are Christian and he helped them do it because like most media types he wasn't prepared for the interview. Then he had two Moon reps to one critic and the critic was given less than 1/3 of the time. When Moon followers start telling you that you were fair as many do here, you know you didn't know what you were doing.
DaleSep 16, 2011 13:13:26 PM
auntie palin, you mean you agree with the "Unificationists", right? "Moonie" is a pejorative word used by bigots the same way "kike" is used by Jew-haters and the "N" word is used by those silly fellas in the white sheets towards African-Americans.
Lara NSep 17, 2011 10:43:53 AM
To whom this may be of interest. I have been a member for 32 years, I have listened to the show, all I can say, I am happy to have been a member for all those years and I have no regrets at all. I am happy with my life and for ever hoping that the world embraces the U.Church for without it we would all be in great trouble, history will catch up with what Father Moon means to the world today, yesterday and tomorrow. Jesus, when he lived on earth, was very much more radical than Rev. Moon,according to the bible! My advise is to make your own investigations and do not rely on what others say!! After all the claim Messiah is worthy of your personal experience and attention. Messiah means I take responsibillity for mankind, Please meditate on this and ask God to lead you!!! God Bless You
rudi rijntjesSep 15, 2011 03:16:02 AM
I like your comment :)
Lenka LipkovaSep 17, 2011 12:30:29 PM
Judge not, lest ye be judged....so says the good Book. A critic is their own worst enemy. Without love, we be but clanging bells. It never is about money, power, ego-building.....it is always about harmony, love and peace. Some will never absorb this until the great Truth of spiritual world absorbs them. May your days be full of promise that the Truth sets you free! God bless you all...
Linda HaibaraSep 18, 2011 13:23:06 PM
As a member of the UC for over 35 years and working as a leader in the movement, as husband, father and businessmen I find obviouly no issue with our interest in Las Vegas. My wife and I are looking at relocating internationally to support our community and re-establish our business in the area. I have worked in ecumenisim and interfaith for many years and will continue to serve God and my fellow brothers and sisters in this capacity in Las Vegas.
Steve EvansSep 15, 2011 01:57:50 AM
Worked for thirty years in Ecumenical outreach for Moon and company and currently underemployed in Kiosk sales. Willing to relocate to Vegas to serve God's providence in any capacity...dealer, bar-tending, masseuse. Heck, I'll even stand in the hot sun handing out Moon's best seller if it comes with room and board. Shoot me an email or leave a message on my Mom's phone....
Frank FrivilousSep 21, 2011 21:56:26 PM
Congratulations on your broadcast which was quite balanced and well-managed. I found the common sense approach of Demian Dunkley quite refreshing. Your listeners are probably not aware of the fact that the popular "brainwashing" theory to which Steven Hassan refers, not being a proven theory, has very little credibility in the scientific community. If listeners have not yet read Rev. Moon's autobiography, I invite them to do so. It is one of the most sincere and compelling accounts I have read for a long time.
JaneSep 15, 2011 01:51:29 AM
Jane, do you know which of Moon's kids Ron is referring to here? Apparently he didn't get the memo. http://tinyurl.com/2qfxjj Narrator: X-Moon follower Ron Paquette says he spoke to Moon's son about brainwashing. Ron Paquette: And I said, "In many ways it reminds me sometimes of like the communist camps." And at that point he said "Yea I know, Father learned that when he was in the prison camp." And I kept trying to make the point that, "No, No, the way we bring in people and the way we control people is kind of like the way that this goes on in North Korean prison camps." And he kept saying, "I know."
DaleSep 22, 2011 02:16:53 AM
I believe the Kingdom of Heaven will be multracial and multireligious. The Blessing is open to all positive religious faithful people who desire a world of peace and harmony starting with their own family.
KitSep 14, 2011 23:04:07 PM
Kit.....you have quite a sense of humor....you actually meant starting with Moon's own family didn't you?
Frank FrivilousSep 21, 2011 21:59:58 PM
Steve Hassan has polished his rhetoric for many years and has profited significantly by his "anti-cult" teaching. He quotes Rev Moon, but does not speak Korean. He neglects the fact that there are more members of OTHER religions that are part of the Family Federation for World Peace, than there are "registered" members. He is diligent in his search for mistakes and problems within the movement and more diligent to ignore the World wide contributions to peace and harmony.
JohnSep 14, 2011 22:22:32 PM
Steve Hassan appears to have had a strong dedication in the beginning, and may have been with some immature leaders who misled him to believe it is ok to lie to save the people. I have been a member for 31 years, having joined in England, but emigrated to USA, following all the rules it still took 9 years to enter, but having the unification ideas helped me to develop a better character. The definition of true love in UC is.. thoughts, words and actions , for the benefit of others, even at the expense of myself. It would be nice if our leaders lived by that code of ethics !
Mike ThickSep 14, 2011 21:47:16 PM
....and the leaders you are refering to are those of the UC Mike?
frank frivilousSep 21, 2011 22:45:42 PM
Kudos to NPR. This was a fair interview and really allowed the maturity of the subject come through. I recently visited Las Vegas with my family and the churches ideas are certainly valid... Las Vegas needs much more family oriented atmosphere!
Johann SchusterSep 14, 2011 21:11:06 PM
Oh that is genious Johann. If they decided to make Vegas family friendly what would they do with all the "adult" type activities that are the mainstay of Vegas's economy?
Frank FrivilousSep 22, 2011 11:45:39 AM
I know Steve Hassan from when I first joined the UC. His organization tried to influence my mother to kidnap me and "deprogram" me, for a large sum of money. But she decided to trust me and she is happy she did. I wonder if Steve is against all religions now. I love Rev and Mrs Moon and believe they are the True Parents and God's representative on earth, like all of us should me someday. What's wrong with that?
MarilynSep 14, 2011 20:03:24 PM
Really? I thought that only happen in Japan... You are lucky that your mum made the correct choice... Some sisters are being raped in the process of 'deprogram' as they know purity is at the essence of our teachings!! May God bless u and your family abundantly for the victory!!
Tiffany BickSep 14, 2011 20:53:46 PM
Tiffany, I don't know how old you are but I assume you understand that rape is against the law, even in Japan. Why not do a little research and come up with some articles to support your statement? I hope that truthfulness is also a virtue in your teachings.
Frank FrivilousSep 22, 2011 11:09:57 AM
Regarding deprogramming in japan: Korea TV with subtitles http://vimeo.com/16325762 By the way, not on this topic but relevant to another comment, this TV program does show a gold statue of Rev and Mrs. Moon in a church temple in Korea that it looks like people are bowing to. But also a picture of Jesus and an image of Buddha as well as a picture symbolizing the Islamic faith in that same temple. And people are bowing to that as well.
Richard EisenmanOct 3, 2011 00:18:23 AM
Wow!! I'm impressed by the host!! In every situation each individual has the reason to feel how they feel. Either good or bad. I see those situation for us to outgrown it and learn and grow spiritually. Just as we see in the bible there were many situation where people were being placed in unfair situations yet God's heart is longing for them to overcome and gain victory.... Why isn't Cain's offering being accepted? Why Tama's husbands had died before she can bore a baby of their lineage? Why Moses can't enter Cannan? Why? Why? Why? Throughout human history there are too many complicationed situation that we can understand from our own narrow perspective. Only when we are able to pull ourselves out of the situation that we are able to see in a new light. When we are able to do that, suddenly we feel liberated and think 'hey! It's not as bad as I thought afterall...' God is always with us especially with those who are struggling... God is carrying us on His back without us realizing... Because God is alive we will be liberated... Keep faith, be hopeful and love!! May God bless America and Las Vegas!!!
Tiffany BickSep 14, 2011 19:30:09 PM
Thank you Mr. Becker for hosting this informative show! I enjoyed your thought-provoking questions and I was happy that you kept the discourse civil, which is more than I can say about many of the comments posted here. For some of you, your blatant hatred towards ANYTHING Reverend Moon stands for or does speaks so loudly, that we cant hear what you are saying. We should follow the example of our host and discuss our perceived differences with mutual respect.
JohnSep 14, 2011 18:40:09 PM
I am a second generation still in high school. I've heard so many stories of struggles and persecution that the first generation have undergone. I understand it was a time in which the foundation of the movement must have been established and growing up in the church has been a whole other experience for all the second gen. There's something truly special about the younger generation being brought up by the church, and all i hear are good things by guests about the youth movement. We are the fish swimming against the current of teen culture where we refuse to date, do drugs, and drink, where adults expect this from "normal" teens. Our year mission program (what is called as GPA now) is also a very important step that the majority of second gen/third gen take for their faith. In my experience i have never been pushed by my own parents to go to church, but by the time I went to my first summer camp at 11 i was inspired by all my peers and team leaders by their determination on being abstinent. ANYWAYS thank you KNPR for giving this chance to hear from our movement.
Sholina Sep 14, 2011 18:18:30 PM
Thanks Sholina. If people go to the official church website familyfed.org they will see some of the things members are doing now. They will also see the names of Rev. and Mrs. Moon featured at the top of the page.
Steve DufourSep 14, 2011 18:44:44 PM
I'm a little surprised to hear that Seoul has 1500 police with riot gear. I guess it helps to be prepared.
James SchwarzSep 14, 2011 16:41:29 PM
Good thing NPR gave the Moon org 25 straight minutes of uninterrupted time to push the propaganda. It took 1500 police in riot gear to quell this violence. http://tinyurl.com/69awsbb An Attack on Dong-A Ilbo The FFWPU worshippers destroyed the computers and office fixtures of the Shindonga journalists and stole the coverage documents of journalist Cho Seong-sik, the one who wrote the report concerned. They threatened to "throw sand on the rotary press of Dong-A Ilbo" and even sent more than 200 text messages to Cho's cell phone, saying, "We'll kill you." Also, a photojournalist of this newspaper company Gang Byeong-gi and a CBS(Korean Christian Broadcasting) reporter Kim Jae-pyeong were attacked with violence and threats by the worshippers. read it all http://tinyurl.com/69awsbb
Dale Sep 14, 2011 16:32:05 PM
I would like to say thanks again to KNPR. I thought they did a fabulous job of hosting us, as well as giving Steve Hassan some time to air his grievances. The great irony is that we actually agree, don't we? Don't we all agree that we need to make up our own minds based upon our own inquiry and prayer? That's what I did, along with every other UC member that I know, btw.
DemianSep 14, 2011 16:11:50 PM
I was also impressed by the fairness of NPR's interview with Rev. In Jin.
Steve DufourSep 14, 2011 16:35:27 PM
I have been Unification Church since August 1971. My wife and two sons Matt and Sam are also members and married by him. I believe God called Rev. Moon to take on the mission that was left undone. He is the Messiah and his wife are the True Parents. We all need parents that can show us how to live. I am appalled by the person who was a member. Let the people decide for themselves if what we are doing and saying comes from God.
Daniel StoiaSep 14, 2011 16:03:03 PM
Question for the Moon followers. When the host asked the Moon reps if they believe Moon is the Messiah, why didn't they tell the whole truth - like they could have said this: "Yes, we believe he is the Messiah and we no longer lie about that to people for cover as we have for decades. In fact, Jesus now serves Moon's dead son in heaven. We also now believe that there is no difference between Moon and "Heavenly Father" or G-d as you might call Him. We believe Moon is the voice of G-d, speaks for G-d and is the arbiter of G-d's will. We believe Jesus and Muhammad(PBUH) bow down before Sun Myung Moon."
DaleSep 14, 2011 15:12:25 PM
Uh....there's a BIG difference between Rev. Moon and Heavenly "Father" (or Heavenly "Mother" would be equally accurate). One is human, just like Jesus was, and the other one is, like, ya know....GOD! (Or G.eneral O.rganizational D.irector, Allah, Jehovah, etc...but not Bruce. Jim Carrey made that one pretty clear. And He/She's not Morgan Freeman, either, although he's pretty cool, even if he isn't as cool as Rev. Moon.)
Lara NSep 14, 2011 15:41:38 PM
I would like to say thanks again to KNPR. I thought they did a fabulous job of hosting us, as well as giving Steve Hassan some time to air his grievances. The great irony is that we actually agree, don't we? Don't we all agree that we need to make up our own minds based upon our own inquiry and prayer? That's what I did, along with every other UC member that I know, btw.
DemianSep 14, 2011 16:01:29 PM
Lara, I apologize. I quoted the video wrong. Promotional Moon org video subtitles from the Congratulatory Banquet for True Parent's Birthday - Sun Myung Moon's 90th birthday: "A new era of heaven and earth is opening up substantially before your eyes in which there is no need to distinguish between the visible True Parents through whom God works and the invisible God." Same thing. The Moon org now teaches that G-d will take the form of Moon and his wife/TP in Heaven now.
DaleSep 14, 2011 16:10:22 PM
Ummm... Rev. Moon is not considered God by anyone I know, and I've listened and applied his teaching for more than 15 years. Also, there's a simple reason I wouldn't just blurt out the, quite simply, most important piece of information you may ever hear. Like a doctor that may take a few minutes to get a handle on a patient before he tells them they have a serious illness, I would take time to prepare and understand someone before I tell them. It's simply a matter of tact, not deception. There's also no 'handbook' or 'orders' on how to share this. It comes from the heart and everyone is different. To judge an entire faith and a reverent man because of a few bad experiences would be a great sadness. Can you imagine judging a whole country because you met some people from there that you didn't understand? More importantly, words may not always convey the entire message. Actions do a better job.
Johann SchusterSep 14, 2011 19:54:52 PM
Dale, I was listening very closely to the Unification Church spokesman's response to the question, "Is Rev. Moon the messiah?" The first word of the reply was, "Absolutely!". To that I say, "Amen!" Thirty-three years ago, when I was 23, I prayed seriously many times for God to show me WHEN His kingdom would come, and WHERE, and WHO would be the king. I found the answers to those prayers in Rev. Moon's Divine Principle. I recently studied the Divine Principle again, and was amazed that it shows God working so exactly and precisely through previously unknown principles to guide humanity back to His bosom. This work actually integrates science and religion. When this becomes widely understood, there will be a revolution of true love that will bring in God's kingdom.
Robert BeckerSep 15, 2011 11:19:22 AM
Thank you for this interview. The clarity which Rev. Burg and Mr. Dunkley provided in their responses to your questions and feeble accusations from Mr. Boyd provide a glowing understanding of the Unification Church. It has such a healthy aspect of family and relationship to our Heavenly Parents that allows us all to become one family under God. It has blessed me beyond words. Thank you once again
Joel LindstromSep 14, 2011 14:39:39 PM
Rev. Moon and his method for bringing word peace has already permeated throughout the world; anyway, Las Vegas should be happy to be a part of his idea of one world family. Unification Church members are everywhere across the globe. I am a second generation member of the Unification Church, with ties to Liberia, Ivory Coast, Germany, Holland, France, Austria, Italy, Portugal, Japan, Korea, and the United States, where I have either lived or have close family in the church that lives. And that's just me and my spouse and and my brothers' and sisters' spouses. This is the ideal of the future: one family under God, where all the world can come together as brothers and sisters. Divisions are so passé anyway. Who in Las Vegas does not want to be a part of such a world? Kyungsun Orr- second gen. of the Unification Church
Kyungsun OrrSep 14, 2011 14:36:09 PM
Kyungsun, thanks for being honest. Your organization IS out to control the world and you are well on your way so Vegas better get on board. Only one small quibble: "one family under G-d" is grossly misleading. Cotter and others are putting out the word, from now on you must follow and take your understanding of Moon's intentions from his kids as they carry on the family business. Especially after Moon dies you will go from doing and believing anything Moon says to doing and believing anything his kids tell you. All those claims about not working to set up a Moon Royal family weren't true, were they? The accurate description would be "One World Under the Moon Family" or "One Family under Moon's Kids".
DaleSep 14, 2011 15:26:30 PM
Hi, Dale.Your comments a little shoking to me. I met UC missionaries in Russia in 1994, was Blessed in 1995. Living now in Japan with my husband and 3 small kids. Non of us made our choice of joining UC out of our lack of thinking well. If Our True Father is realy the Lord of The Second Advent, his children just should take responsibility of leading a prosess of building a Heavenly Kingdom on Eath after their Father.In a practical sence "Moon's kids" did suffer a lot, they know and understand our problems very well, they have a vision and clear understanding of "how the things should be". They are leading the way out in our personal lives as well as leading some public organisations. It's not about controling one another. They have a quality of Heart and of Mind and of Character to be in a leading position. And we willing to listen them for that and support their work because of we do care for each other. So let them be who they are, let them show how much they can do for the world and for each of us, if we are willing to appreciate their hard work.
Tsukada TatianaSep 14, 2011 21:45:19 PM
My apologies all, i meant Acts 5:38 which reads as follows "....Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. 39 But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.
Marcus Beresford Sep 14, 2011 14:32:44 PM
Yeah, Acts is a good verse to quote, I like that one, too :)
Lara N.Sep 14, 2011 15:44:02 PM
A very interesting discussion. Mr. Dunkley not only gave clear answers to challenging leading questions but was constantly proactive. REv. Berg explained a main tenet of the theology as being true to love. Mr. Hasan seemed out of his depth. He claims to know Rev. moon however it turns out he saw him once or maybe twice many years ago. With what authority does he speak? that of a disappointed whiny youth who then got a degree in social psychobabble. He would do better to read the advice of Gamaliel in Acts 5:2
Marcus BeresfordSep 14, 2011 14:20:21 PM
Thanks Marcus. I think that is Acts 5:34
Richard EisenmanOct 7, 2011 20:59:49 PM
I love the Unification Church, when I have 19 year old, I attend the Seminary about Divine Principle, Now after 16 year, I clean my spirit for the word of God, to me. God Bless everyone.
Omar ValleSep 14, 2011 14:16:04 PM
Christ was also not a Christian and he did not read the Bible. Throughout history people developed believe systems to make sense of their lives and learn and grow. I say give Rev. Moon a chance in Las Vegas! I read his biography, he is an "exceptional man!" but maybe for people that do not have an open mind difficult to understand.
RickySep 14, 2011 14:04:10 PM
"Christ was also not a Christian and he did not read the Bible." So? This is 2000 years later and there IS a Bible and CHRISTIANS use it to teach their kids, not as a lesson in how to use it to seduce others but to learn about Him.
DaleSep 14, 2011 14:48:19 PM
So, Dale, Buddy, You're an authority on Jesus and Christians? Y'know He was a nice Jewish boy, right? And you know how a great many Christians who...how did you put it..."use it (the Bible) to teach their kids, not as a lesson in how to use it to seduce others but to learn about Him."....that throughout history, those Bible-loving Christians who've supposedly used the Bible to learn about Jesus, then also persecuted the Jews? And I'm not just talking about WWII and the Holocaust, but the persecution and genocide of Jews throughout Europe in history?...I think those Christians need to study a little harder about who Jesus is and how He expects them to act towards others, particularly people they consider to be 'enemies'. Does "Love your enemy" ring a bell?....Peace out, bro!
Lara N.Sep 14, 2011 15:49:05 PM
Lara dear, what is the purpose of your response? Just to slam Christians? Make me feel guilty so I will see how the UC is JUST like the Jews being persecuted? What is the purpose? You have a living breathing "messiah" as the Moon kids now in control of telling you the latest revelations tell you over and over&SMM has been here for all the lying and swindling and Cleopas beatings(there's a family value for you!), he was there to tell Nansook she wasn't a good enough wife when she went for help when the "messiah's" son beat her when she was pregnant, he was there as Mrs. Messiah told Nansook how smuggle cash into the USA, he was there when his son consummated his "marriage" to Nansook when she was only 15 and should have been charged with statutory rape. He was guiding the organization when it helped prop up the torturing dictators in South American like Stroessner. Ask Dr. Martin Alamada what he thinks of Moon's "family values." http://tinyurl.com/7gk3ogu
DaleSep 16, 2011 13:42:51 PM
The interview was fair and balanced, exactly what we have come to expect from NPR. Though a Unificationist, I have no ill will toward Steve Hassan,who sounds as if he sincerely believes he is helping people break away from the thing he calls "Mind control." OK, so it's a discredited theory discarded by the mainstream community of psychologists decades ago, he's trying to help people. I have heard from Old-timers that Steve was a great member in 1975. We know how to pick 'em.
Doug BurtonSep 14, 2011 13:55:43 PM
Are you going to advise the host to correct his notes? Didn't he say your organization went by the Family Federation(FFWPU)? But Hyung Jin put out the order that you are to no longer to HIDE behind the front group names like the organization has the last 50 years. He said all the names UPF, WFWP all of them and he specifically said you should no longer use FFWPU. How come you still do use front group names? Why does In Jin HIDE behind the name "Lovin Life Ministries"?
DaleSep 14, 2011 14:21:59 PM
While the Moon reps were basking in the claims of being Christian, why didn't they mention that the UC teaches that Jesus failed and now serves Moon's dead son in the afterlife? Or that the movement teaches that Moon is G-d incarnate and speaks for G-d? Or as Hyung Jin says, that Moon's "love" is much much greater than anything Jesus came up with? Recently Moon said there was no need for anyone to waist time trying to discern a differences between himself and "Heavenly Father." Why do you think they held back what the movement really believes? You don't think they were trying to deceive the listeners, do you?
DaleSep 14, 2011 14:58:32 PM
What's in a name, Steve? I mean, Dale? Or is it Steve Hassan?
Rex MurphySep 19, 2011 12:06:06 PM
I have a Ph. D. in microbiology and have studied psychology, philosophy, and the history of science. My study of the Unification Church theology leads me believe that it is a profound expansion of Christian theological teaching. I think it can be a great benefit to our society.
Monty JohnsonSep 14, 2011 13:44:35 PM
I listened to this broadcast and I believe Demian Dunkely represented Reverend Moon and the Unification Church as openly and honestly as anyone can. His answer to Mr. Steven Hassans criticism is excellent in that Demian was raised by his Father thinking just like Steven who is basing his perceptions from an angry and selfish heart seeking to destroy what God is doing through Reverend Moon. The fact that Demian decided for himself to follow Reverend Moons teaching the Divine Principle only reaffirms that God is behind Reverend Moon. Ronald E. Pine A unification member since 1969
Ron PineSep 14, 2011 13:40:01 PM
The Moon organization has been running scams in Japan for decades to fund its worldwide activities - there are now over 30,000 claims against the UC and its followers for swindling in Japan that total over a billion dollars. Now they boast that they "donated" a couple million to Japan relief. What gall. Google "moonies in japan" to see one main way the organization makes the money to fund all of its efforts. Google "Moonies: cults and the media" for video of a panel discussion featuring 3 conservative former editors of Moon's media. They explain what the Washington Times is all about.
DaleSep 14, 2011 13:37:04 PM
How about Googling: bigot and prejudice? And by the way, it's UNIFICATIONISTS, not "moonies". Sincerely, a "kike" "moonie" or to non-bigots, I'm known as a Jewish Unificationist Oh yes, try googling Nazi and dehumanization and Hitler (he did the same smear job on the Jews to get people to go along with gassing 6mil of us.) Thanks for paving the way for history to repeat itself!
Lara NSep 14, 2011 14:01:04 PM
So, what do you think of the fact that one of the main sources of cash for the Moon organization is swindling widows?

What did you think when Nansook wrote about how she went to Mrs. & Ms. Messiah Moon and told them her husband and their son beat her when she was pregnant? What did you think when the Messiahs told her it was her fault? Or when their own daughter came to them with the same problem she was told it was her fault also. Is that a Moon family value?

http://tinyurl.com/3fe9tq

DaleSep 14, 2011 14:35:41 PM
Dear Dale, there is absolutely no doubt that you are Steve Hassan. If you were one who just happened to listen to this interview and just decided to comment, that would be one thing. But you are all over this comment wall posting point for point negative responses to counter every positive response. Only someone like a Steve Hassan would so vehemently respond so often with so many facts to back him up. Definitely agenda driven and not just casual or even reactionary comments. NIce try Brother:D
PaulSep 21, 2011 12:12:14 PM
Dear Dale, there is absolutely no doubt that you are Steve Hassan. There is "absolutely no doubt" in your mind? That's funny. Does it make you feel better to think that? Just itching to write off anything I say? I could post a thousand times that I am not him but since you have "absolutely no doubt" I doubt you would change your mind even if you saw me typing this. How long did it take you to accept the 7 deaths? Bout a half second?
DaleSep 22, 2011 01:53:55 AM
The Moon organization is not Christian. They claim Jesus failed and that he had to be married by Moon to living person to allow Him entry through the Gates. They teach that Jesus now serves Moon's dead son in heaven. Moon's son Hyung Jin says that Jesus, Muhammad and all past saints and sages bow down before Moon/TP. He also admits that they were never taught the Bible when growing up. Does that sound "Christian"?
DaleSep 14, 2011 13:18:02 PM
Dale - In what sense Jesus succeeded and/or failed is a serious question that has been debated in theological and other circles for a long time, by christians and others. If Jesus entirely succeeded 2000 years ago, why would christians believe in a second coming and why aren't we living in the Heavenly kingdom already? You may think Rev. Moon is crazy to be concerned about things like whether or not Jesus should have married, and also about what is happening in the 'spirit world' including Mohammed, Buddha, etc, but the fact is that these 'dead people', like Jesus, have a real impact on people who are alive now. Influenced by inspiration from 'the spirit' of a celibate Jesus, Catholic Priests take their vows of celibacy. Whether or not one takes this to be the literal agency of a spirit or an inspiration in ones mind is of little matter. After all, whatever you are and do starts in your mind and heart. I sense that you may be influenced by a materialism which is dismissive of anyone who finds inspiration from spiritual concerns. But, actually most people in the world do not share the narrow-minded rationalism of western intellectuals.
Richard EisenmanSep 14, 2011 16:25:15 PM
"I sense that you may be influenced by a materialism which is dismissive of anyone who finds inspiration from spiritual concerns. But, actually most people in the world do not share the narrow-minded rationalism of western intellectuals." Not as easy targets, eh? No one's and good till they bow to Moon right? I find you arrogant and puffed up, how's that?. I love it when Moon followers try to analyze anyone critical who they have not met and have no idea who they are. But if it helps you rationalize, go for it. Nice reply though you should have thrown in Moon's favorite parlor trick, you know where when stuck by things like Jesus saying not to fall for people who claim to be the messiah, they should "pray they have a dream." I have studied lucid dreaming and anyone who meditates on a subject long enough they will have dream on the subject. I have done it. The trick is to hope the target takes anything they dream as a "spiritual" experience. I find the whole Jesus and Muhammad(PBUH) bowing down before SMM, a man who has funded his org by swindling widows and exploiting his members(yes, I know you "choose" to let him tell you what to do) to be abhorrent,I must admit.
Dale Sep 14, 2011 16:49:07 PM
I am a Unificationist and I also believe in Jesus, but my belief in Jesus is different than other Christians. But I believe there are thousands of different interpretations of the Bible. Right? And different interpretations of Jesus' mission and life. I am not insulted when someone says we are not Christian but I think that is up to Jesus to decide. I don't think anyone has a monopoly on the "Christian" market. Many "Christians" have 'strange' beliefs as seen by others, wouldn't you say so?
MarilynSep 14, 2011 20:13:45 PM
"I find the whole Jesus and Muhammad(PBUH) bowing down before SMM ... abbhorent ..." A little backround: SMM is from Korea and Korea has a strong indigenous shamanic tradition. Most Korean shamans, are women and they cultivate spiritual practices likely inclusive of what you refer to as 'lucid dreaming'. Visions of goings-on in the 'spirit world' are often experienced by these mudangs, a number of whom are active in the Unification Church in Korea, and these visions have made their way into the Unification church 'canon'. Now, you can dismiss their visions as nonsense, but beware of ones prejudices: after all, the 'transcendent' and 'messanic' visions of Van Gough are spoken of in tones of hushed and unquestioned reverance throughout the sacred corridors of enlightened liberal academia. More important is what such visions might mean. After all, we have another vision of Muhammad(PBUH) and willing virgins in heaven, adopted by suicide bombers. That vision is NOT one in which Muhammad(PBUH) and Christ and Buddah and Rev Moon's deceased son are in Heaven serving and bowing to each other as brothers. Wouldn't it be a good idea if there was a better and different vision of heaven?
Richard EisenmanSep 14, 2011 21:42:29 PM
"That vision is NOT one in which Muhammad(PBUH) and Christ and Buddah and Rev Moon's deceased son are in Heaven serving and bowing to each other as brothers." Gosh, you rationalize a lot, don't you? Does wiggling around that much hurt? Note. Hyung Jin wasn't remotely talking about SMM bowing to anything. It's Jesus and Muhammad(PBUH) doing the bowing before SMM. It's Jesus who is doing the "serving." Nansook detailed how Jesus was now below Moon's dead son. It's disgusting.
DaleSep 16, 2011 12:38:24 PM
Dale - I am not a big student of reports by mediums regarding events in the spirit world. But I did find on my bookshelf one report by a spiritualist of Buddha bowing to 'Jesus and Christians'. Bowing in oriental culture is a pretty common way of showing respect. Its also not necessarily one-way. In the Bible Jacob bows to Esau and Joseph to his brothers... and Joseph had a dream where his descendants bowed to him ? If a medium reported that Jesus had bowed to Rev. Moon's son in the spirit world it would be an expression of respect. Unification belief is that Jesus appeared to Rev. Moon at age 15 and asked him to complete his mission; the completion of which involved marrying a 'Mrs. Jesus' and establishing a messiah-ship of 'True Parents'. If Jesus approved of Rev. Moon's efforts in this regard, then its conceivable that he might bow to him or to a member of his family ... Of course we are talking about spirits, so who really knows until one goes to the spirit world ! I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that it is 'disgusting'.
Richard EisenmanSep 19, 2011 02:16:19 AM
Mr. Eisenman, thank you kindly for your matter-of-factly elucidation of the many topics discussed. I particularly liked the one about 'bowing'. :) God bless you and your family!
Rex MurphySep 19, 2011 12:41:31 PM
try again Let me put it to you this way. SMM isn't bowing to anyone or thing. I think you know the bigger point of this but you are going to act like it isn't there. It isn't just the bowing down before SMM, which is not as you couch it and you know it, and yes, that is disgusting. It's the constant, and I mean constant, drum beat of how Jesus is subpar to SMM. I know you are putting on new face, the re-branding efforts, but it's still a very common theme in your movement. A lot of people have claimed to be the messiah over the years, but none that claim credibility, that I know of, spend so much time trying to convince their followers Jesus is far less of a "messiah" than they are. Moon's son dies and he becomes the "new Messiah" and Jesus is now the "old Messiah." Moon's son is the new Commander in heaven. Jesus serves Moon's son.
daleSep 21, 2011 22:17:57 PM
Considering that these spirit messages are the backbone of your org, why are you acting like they are not to be trusted? Isn't scamming people by claiming by paying the Moon family they can have their lineage cleaned up in the spirit world still a primary money raker? By the same people who get these messages? Why, whenever Jesus is being channeled, why is He so often made out to be this sad sack whose only wish is that He hadn't inspired His followers to be so supportive of Him instead of jumping on the SMM bandwagon? Hyung Jin said he spent a decade fretting over why his father's "love" was greater than what Jesus or anyone else taught. Why does Hyung Jin go on all the time about how SMM's "love" is better than anything Jesus came up with? I want to know why Jesus is constantly depicted like this. Here's a typical sampling. From "Blessing and the Ideal Family" we get, "To bear children rooted in God and True Parents is more exalted than Mary's bearing the Messiah. The blessed children born of you are better than Jesus, for whom God prepared 4,000 years."
DaleSep 21, 2011 22:23:43 PM
Dale, Rev. Moon is talking about the logic of love and the idea is this: it is 'exhalting' to our ultimate parent, God, when his child is born. And it is even MORE exhalting when his grandchild is born. And even MORE exhalting when his great grandchild is born, etc, etc, ad infinitum. In the logic of love, Parents wish to give everything to their child and are not diminished by their child surpassing them. This is in contrast to the logic of worldly 'satanic' love in which if I were to give something to you, I would be diminished and you would increase. This idea of a true and sacrificial love isn't just some crazy idea of Rev. Moon, it pervades the Bible. By the way, consider the Unification view of John the Baptist; that he succumbed the worldly view with: He must increase, but I must decrease.
Richard EisenmanOct 1, 2011 12:34:31 PM
Aunty Palin, Albert Einstein believed in God and he was a pretty good scientist as far as I know.
Lenka GolovlevSep 14, 2011 12:52:32 PM
What is your source for this statement? There must be thousands of internet pages (and quite a few books) on if Einstein believed in god. Quite a few quote him as not having believed in a "personal god."
aunty palinSep 14, 2011 13:39:46 PM
Isn't one of Einstein's more famous quotes: "God does not play dice with the universe"?
Lara NSep 14, 2011 14:02:55 PM
He also said his main interest was to understand God's mind in creating the Universe, or something like that.
Steve DufourSep 14, 2011 16:31:20 PM
I grew up in the church and recently made the decision to believe in it for one simple reason: the teachings which we are "brainwashed" to accept result in the most amazing and kind people I have ever met. I have hope because I know that if everybody lived by the standards that make such people, this world WILL BE one family under God, where people live in harmony because they live for the sake of others.
Godwin FreelandSep 14, 2011 12:46:26 PM
Rev.Moon has done a lot of good for others and Las Vegas definitely benefited from his presence. It is always easy to point fingers and put others down - much easier than doing something positive. What have you critics done lately to help others?It would make this world a better place if people used their energy to build each other up rather then tear each other down...
Lenka GolovlevSep 14, 2011 12:44:48 PM
I was a devote member of the Holy Spitit Association for the Unification of World Christianity for 10 years (1975 - 1985). I elected to leave to engage myself into the world of business. I have two points to make; 1) the fruits of the tree says it all about the tree; 2) how can anyone critize a man who is trying to bring God back into the lives of people?
John HitchlerSep 14, 2011 12:38:43 PM
You are still here dear John. You never left. You are home.
Linda HaibaraSep 18, 2011 13:50:51 PM
I cant believe the kind of comments Im reading here&all this negative stuff. Rev. Moon has devoted his entire life to bring peace and love all over the world and you have these people making up all these stories. He has saved my life from this fallen world. My son has devoted three years volunteering for the Unification church and he is continuing a fourth year working closely with the youth. I see so many other kids out there into sex, drugs and God knows what. Thanks to Rev. Moon my kid is doing Gods work.
Richard G.Sep 14, 2011 12:36:58 PM
Glad to know that people of religious faith and conviction are doing good things in Sin City. Don't pay much heed to the critics - what are they doing besides sitting and grousing. Godspeed and good luck!
Gelo FleisherSep 14, 2011 12:25:29 PM
One of the most important and cherished aspects of our American system of government is the Constitution's guarantee of freedom of religion. Most open-minded people respect the right of any human being to choose his or her own set of beliefs. Moreover, it's far better to speak positively about one's own church, group or set of beliefs than it is to try to deride others for their beliefs.
Clark EberlySep 14, 2011 12:04:10 PM
All of the major religions were started in a time when science was very weak. I think the general level of science education is decreasing in the US so it makes sense (to me) that religious fevor is also increasing here. I will be curious to see if Christianity increases or decreases in S. Korea. And yes, I am an Athiest.
aunty palinSep 14, 2011 12:18:00 PM
Unfortunately our "Freedom of Religion" gets replayed quite often with "Feedom from Religion!"
RickySep 14, 2011 12:25:19 PM
Why does the UC mix up being exposed for lawbreaking and the use of deception with being persecuted?
DaleSep 14, 2011 15:31:03 PM
OMG. I agree with another commenter. The wedding chapel business will have a new gig in town. And Mass Weddings at ???
cultwatcherSep 14, 2011 11:45:07 AM
Moon has some very pricey digs to retire at in Westchester Co. N.Y. and a palace on a lake in S. Korea. What is the attraction for him in Las Vegas? Will he be gambling with the hard earned donations of his lobotamized followers?
Frank FrivilousSep 14, 2011 10:49:15 AM
A) we're not lobotomized B) Yeah, some "palace" and some "retirement", seeing as how he'll have to share with all the hundreds (thousands at times) of people who tromp thru it on a daily basis - seeing how it's a MUSEUM and CONFERENCE CENTER!! And the living quarters for him and his family are pretty small compared to the rest of it that's open to the public (Unificationists who helped pay for it voluntarily)! As for the NY property - same thing - Unificationists tromping thru all the time. We're all family and make good use of the open door policy to Unificationists. Every time Rev. Moon is in town, we flock there in droves. I'm sure that's very relaxing for him and his family.
Lara NSep 14, 2011 14:14:40 PM
I have had dreams and visions of Rev Mrs. Moon and of Jesus that lead me to believe that they are all on the same page of building the Kingdom of Heaven. God uses Jesus in visions and dreams and also the True Parents.
Kit Sep 14, 2011 22:54:59 PM
The U.C. reps have made a pitch to the public that they intend to bring money into the Vegas community but neglected to say how they intend to change the essential character of the place which was put on the map by Organized crime. It isn't like the host didn't give them enough time to make their case either. I wish they would have given Hassan more time to explain Moon's shady history.
Frank FrivilousSep 15, 2011 13:58:27 PM
Do Dawkins, Hitchins and the Flying Spaghetti Monster know the Moonies have landed in Vegas? R'Amen
aunty palinSep 14, 2011 10:40:30 AM
You mean "Unificationists", right? Otherwise you probably call Jews "kikes" and African-Americans by the "N" word!
Lara NSep 14, 2011 14:16:08 PM
Nope, I meant "Moonie" - I'm not playing along with the Moonie PR effort to legitimize the cult.
aunty palinSep 14, 2011 17:22:41 PM
Realize that the term moonie is not how we wish to be called. We find it relatively offensive as it is basically an attempt to trivialize a great faith. Continuing to do so is an act of bigotry. You are notified that this is offensive, by someone who utilizes this faith system, so please show respect, even if you do not feel it in your heart. We certainly don't put down other thought systems, be they religions or non-religions, and we'd expect the same civilty.
Johann SchusterSep 14, 2011 21:02:17 PM
Wow, the Moonie grapevine sure has called out the devoted...I find it hilariously arrogant that you MOONIES think you have been "persecuted" to the tragic extent of the Jewish or African People. I will certainly agree that you are victims - victims of your delusional idolatry of a false, shallow, profiteering so called prophet. SHOW ME THE MONEY!
aunty palinSep 15, 2011 04:57:01 AM
A humorous (to me) "vision" of gangs of Moonies and young Mormon missionaries "angling" for turf in Vegas. Moonies and Mormons! IT'S TIME TO RUMMMMBLE!
aunty palinSep 14, 2011 10:38:12 AM
Uh....it's not likely that UNIFICATIONISTS and LATTER DAY SAINTS would fight, as for the most part, both groups are non-violent. Speaking as a "Kike Moonie" or, to the non-bigoted, A Jewish Unificationist, I've met lots of Latter Day Saints and they're really nice people. Same with Jehovah's Witnesses.
Lara NSep 14, 2011 15:55:20 PM
Actually we American Unificationists mostly look up to the Mormons as elder brothers. That would make another good interview topic.
Steve DufourSep 14, 2011 16:15:43 PM
aunty, don't pay any attention, they are all about convincing people that Moon and friends are "persecuted" in a Holocaust like the Jews. seems they don't want to be called moonies because it reminds people of who they are. Most potential marks don't know what the FFWPU is.

Read this about the word "moonie"

http://tinyurl.com/7hcaaj9

DaleSep 14, 2011 17:04:34 PM
I see on the internet that Patrick Hickey, a Washoe County State Rep., is also a former member of the Moonies. He would have been an interesting guest.
aunty palinSep 14, 2011 10:35:36 AM
I just finished reading Pat's autobiography. Yes he would be an outstanding interviewee.
Steve DufourSep 14, 2011 16:05:24 PM
Now I am pondering the tax implications when a church owns businesses? I assume the business pays taxes but any profits passing to the church are not?
aunty palinSep 14, 2011 10:25:39 AM
I happen to be an accountant (as well as a Unificationist) so I can answer your question. A business corporation pays taxes on its profits (usually 35%) regardless of its owners. Non-profit stockholders (and lower income ones) do not normally pay income taxes on the dividends they receive. Of course the Later Day Saints own a lot more property in Nevada than the Unificationists.
Steve DufourSep 14, 2011 16:11:27 PM
Watch out wedding chapel owners! HE IS COMING to take over the market!!! :-)
aunty palinSep 14, 2011 10:20:24 AM
LOL! But actually, it's standard for the most part that there's a great deal of preparation one goes thru beforehand in the Unification Church, to make sure you're ready to handle the commitment of marriage. Lotta workshops and seminars and reflection needed, while a typical "Las Vegas Wedding" is pretty much a spur-of-the-moment type thing, usually while under the influence of recreational drugs.
Lara NSep 14, 2011 16:08:10 PM
There are some happy "Las Vegas marriages." :-)
James SchwarzSep 14, 2011 16:44:53 PM
Steve - The UC was and is a lot more underhanded than the Mormons ever were, financially speaking. As an accountant and a member of the Artesia MFT I'm sure you can guesstimate just how much money was raised for and funneled to UC businesses by well-conned teenagers and never taxed.
Z. HayashiSep 24, 2011 15:43:25 PM
From Nansook's "In the Shadow of the Moons": There was no question inside the church that the Reverend Moon used his religious tax exemption as a tool for financial gain in the business world. & No matter what the lawyers said in court, no one internally disputed that the Reverend Moon commingled church and business funds. No one had any problem with it. How often had I heard church advisers discuss funneling church funds into his business enterprises and political causes because his religious, business, and political goals are the same: world dominance for the Unification Church. It was U.S. tax laws that were wrong, not Sun Myung Moon. Man's law was secondary to the Messiah's mission. The Reverend Moon's philosophy sounded benign enough: "The world is fast becoming one global village. The survival and prosperity of all are dependent on a spirit of cooperation. The human race must recognize itself as one family of man." What his civil libertarian allies outside the Unification Church failed to realize was that Sun Myung Moon, and only Sun Myung Moon, was the head of that family.
DaleSep 29, 2011 08:56:27 AM
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