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I agree! I wholly support renewable energy but not at the expense of one wild horse or burro.
MarieB –
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I second that Jacob!
Alexandra Nicole –
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I so agree Kelly! The BLM is ignoring what the people want done with public land and its animals and it's not right. The few remaining vestiges of Americana are disappearing before our very eyes and we are paying for it to happen.
Alexandra Nicole –
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Well, if the round-ups persist and the wild horses are killed off, they WILL be an exotic animal. Besides, I think the Assateague and Chincoteague wild ponies help to prove the point that wild horses are indeed an economic draw, all you need do is research that to find the "data" you are looking for. Those wild ponies support tourism in the neighboring town of Berlin as well as right there on the Maryland and Virginia islands.
Alexandra Nicole –
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Yes, Kenton, they do.
I have entertained visitors from all over the world. Invariably, what they want to see are WILD HORSES.
Not elk, not deer - definitely NOT cattle.
These people stay in local motels, buy gasoline and meals - some even rent automobiles - for the opportunity to view the last truly wild horses in the country. It's a very small market, but it is growing.
Photography is the outdoor sport of the decade. More people want to take pictures of wildlife, than want to kill animals
Arla M. Ruggles –
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This has nothing to do with romantic notions. It's about ending abuse and torture of helpless animals for greed. Your comment just proves that stronger penalties must be enforced against abusers. You think you have a right to kill and torture just because you live in a particular state? Is everyone in Nevada this cruel and ignorant?
Robin –
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And Big Horn sheep are not native either, the BLM & Dept of Wildlife are removing wild horses from the Virginia Range, to re-introduce big horn sheep. This is favoring one species over another & only for the hunting dollars.
Darcy Grizzle –
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Also, horses don't stand & graze the same place, they are constantly on the move, sometimes 10 to 50 miles a day, they come down in the winters & go up the mountains in the summers. They don't hang at the waterholes until they are depleted like the cattle do.
Darcy Grizzle –
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Wild horses and burros are NOT invasive species but rather an asset to the environment; I will respond to your statement with a quote from Mustang Meg, "They move as they graze, clipping the tops of plants rather then pulling them out by the rootballs... and most importantly, reseeding as they go. When the snow or ice are thick, mustangs paw through the snow exposing vegetation beneath... benefitting big game animals of the area as well. "
Alexandra Nicole –
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Darcy.
What on earth gives you the idea that Bighorn sheep are not native? Desert Bighorns are most certainly native as are Rocky Mountain bighorns. You may want to at least check wikipedia. As a native animal, they are well adapted to a niche in the environment, not to mention they graze predominantly on terrain that is inaccessible to horses, cattle or domestic sheep. Bighorn #s for ALL of north America is around 70,000: This and That.
Travis –
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Alexandra, what do you call a non-native species in an environment in which they have no substantial predators? As a consequence (Using the number of 2,000,000 given in the broadcast by one of the advocates)has an unchecked explosion of population? Resulting in an altering of the natural ecosystem. I am fairly certain, even by your own description of the horses effect on the environment, if there was the political will, they could be classified an invasive species.
Travis –
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Like I said in another post, I like having the horses around. But lets not forget what they are.
Travis –
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Travis, do you really want to get into a discussion of native and non-native species when you seem to side with cattle which may I remind you were brought over from Europe, they are domesticated non-native animals. And no substantial predators? What do you call mountain lions, bears, wolves, and the like? Horses are prey animals, how can you even make the statement that they have no substantial predators as an argument of horses being invasive with a straight face? Please research your argument a bit further because your facts are faulty at best.
Alexandra Nicole –
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Wolves? Okay...
You sure know a lot about the ecosystem.
You would better spend your time protecting the wolves than an invasive species.
But you know how much cattlemen love them too.
Travis –
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Mountain lions? Bears? If these predators kept the populations in check, there shouldn't have been 2,000,000 of them. You realize that modern horse precursors went extinct in North America over 10,000 years ago, at the same time Mastodons, giant sloths & Saber tooth cats disappeared from north america. A very different ecosystem. They all went extinct for a reason. They had no place in the developing environment.
Travis –
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You seem to think that if I'm not on your side, I must be on "the other".
The media & narrow sighted individuals as yourself see everything as black & white. The cattlemen have cattle, & try to serve their own interests. You like horses & think they're pretty, so come up with any reason you can to back up your stance. I look at the issue objectively & see no reason these animals should be here; here only because we brought them here. Perhaps you should really concern yourself with maintaining a natural, balanced environment instead of protecting a symbol, a bauble to your romanticized vision of the west. Clear the human use & human introduced species & leave the ecosystem as it was before our arrival.
Travis –
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PS: "NOT invasive species but rather an asset to the environment" - please provide a link with scientific back-up for this statement. Not a random quote from "Mustang Meg" (by that name, sure to be an un-biased source for information.) You need science on your side, not sentiment. In other words: Prove it!
Travis –
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Thanks for the history lesson. What was that supposed to prove? That millions of years ago, equine species evolved in North America in a drastically different climate? No kidding, I do believe I said as much. They went extinct & were reintroduced by humans. They no longer belong. Anymore than any other Pleistocene inhabitant that couldn't cut the transition into the Holocene. What about camels? Elephantidae once lived in NA too. Do these animals still have a place. Why not? Why should horses get an exception?
Travis –
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Ohh, & there is evidence showing equine grazing can severely damage native perennials.
While you're at it, maybe you could send an email to defenders.org & see why they do not seem to use horses as one of their focuses. I would be genuinely interested to hear their answer.
Travis –
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That's not much in the way of evidence. And anything, including humans, can damage native perennials. So we should limit humans them to 20% of the available BLM land but really only let them exist on 10%. And for fun we'll say they might starve in a few years so we'll round them up and remove half of them.
MarieB –
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Travis, one wrong man can always find a friend.
Alexandra Nicole –
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You make a great point there MarieB! Besides, Travis seems to be neglecting the fact that back when the Indians were here living in harmony with the wild horses and buffalo, we had lush fertile plains and grasses as far as the eye could see. It is only when man stepped in and tried to kill off the buffalo and bring in cattle which stand and graze in one place for extended periods in fenced in areas, and began killing off natural predators (the wolf, bear, etc) that we had destruction of land. If there is any overabundance of horse population it could be solved by man not killing of their natural predators. And furthermore, I do not trust the numbers given on the wild horse population anyway because they are already in dispute as far as accuracy. This whole argument is hinged on the numbers of wild horses which are not found to be accurate at this point as there are conflicting numbers being reported by other groups. If you compare the state of the land when wild ones were allowed to be wild with minimal interference by man and the state of the land today, it's not hard to tell where the problem stems from.
Alexandra Nicole –
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If anyone is to make claims about a surge in wild horse population, I say quit killing the horses natural predators and let nature do its job as it has been since the beginning of time.
Alexandra Nicole –
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Travis, if they horses are outnumbered 50 to one by cattle, it is plain to see what is doing the range damage. I don't agree it is the horses.
Darcy Grizzle –
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Sorry I had to break it up into another post, to quote: (myself, lol) "Regulations placed on federal lands ensure responsible grazing by ranchers. This is accomplished by rounding up their herds & moving them. How does this apply to horses & burros?"
Travis –
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4th paragraph of overview:
Dr. MacPhee, a paleontologist, took issue with the BLM's characterization of the horse as a non-native species, stating that scientifically, the idea that horses are an invasive species is utterly wrong. He continued, A native species cannot be considered invasive in its native ecosystem, and stressed the importance of correcting the BLM's mischaracterization of the horse. A native species has a place at the table, he concluded. Once the horse is fixed as a native species, it must be treated as such. You cannot treat a native species as we treat the horses today.
Ross MacPhee, Curator, Division of Vertebrate Zoology, Department of Mammalogy, American Museum of Natural History
MarieB –
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Please educate yourself. Horses evolved in North America. They are not an invasive species. Bones have been found showing that there may have been some that remained, after the migration across the Bering Straight. Also, their foraging and migrations actually help the environment, Cattle, on the other had, are an invasive species, that decimate the lands. I am tired of welfare ranching, and my tax payer money going to this. Cattle scourge, and cause desertification, of the land.
audrey c –
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Are you joking???? Do you seriously consider wild horses as invasive feral animals? They are wild and they are native...eohippus, either a direct descendent or a cousin of the modern horse
was in North America 50 million years ago.
The fact that the BLM feels it has ownership of the wild horses and feels it can refuse to follow the protection act is appalling, as are the roundups that clear land so that special interests can be catered to. Public lands belong to the American people, and the wild animals that are on these lands do not belong to the BLM. Just the fact that a law was recently proposed to shut off access to water to these range animals tells you how absurd and twisted the whole mustang control mindset is.
karin worth –
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Robert are you serious ,what do you think they use to get around on when there wasn't cars ?? there certainly isn't anything in the history books about soldiers or anyone back then riding sheep , deer or Elk for transportation.The Wild mustang is an American symbol not a pest.I guess some people don't have a clue how import these animals where and still are !!!
kelly –
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In my area, elk were hunted to extinction and re-introduced. Therefore, the new strain, like bighorns, are NOT native species.
Horses, on the other hand, are genetically suited to the terrain they have inhabited for hundreds of years.
Meanwhile, deer populations are declining due to over hunting, predation, and the proliferation of ... ELK.
Horses don't eat the same vegetations, and are highly compatible with other wildlife. Wherever you find horses, there will also be pronghorn.
Arla M. Ruggles –
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Jeff, this is so true, I document a herd near Vegas, & I find there is no range damage, & year round water as there are no cattle grazing where this herd is & no fences to upset their migratory patterns from summer to winter pasture.
Darcy Grizzle –
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Thank you, Jeff! It is so important for people like you and I -- who actually live out here, and know the true conditions of the range, come forward to speak the truth.
Having followed certain herds for years, I can attest that there is a lot more damage by cattle - and elk, than horses ever do.
There are ways of managing public lands that would accommodate every species currently out there. Too bad they aren't interested in the opinions of those of us who live here and don't raise cattle.
Arla M. Ruggles –
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Thank you for your service to wild horses and burros and for your eyewitness account of what conditions are really like out there. God bless you for your support of these animals and their right to live free.
Alexandra Nicole –
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" Ken Salazar, Secretary of the Interior, owns kill pens in USDA feed lots in NM, where wild horses and burros ship over the border to Mexico for slaughter without the public ever knowing. "
Wow...Is this documented? Can it be proven? Sounds like a potential conflict of interest.
Romayne Chamberlain –
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Yes, indeed! I have visitors from all over the world, in an area that offers little competition to grand landscapes like Grand Canyon and Zion NP's .... my visitors invariably want to see WILD horses in their natural environments.
They're not interested in deer or elk - which can be found anywhere - including cities.
BLM actually cites the presence of horse trails as "a detriment to the 'wilderness experience'".
Excuse me? Trails are commonly used by many species. Why are single hoof trails less attractive than the cloven style??
Arla M. Ruggles –
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That was my next rant Carol, thank you for bringing up that specific point.
Darcy Grizzle –
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The castration EXPERIMENT is the most pressing issue, IMO. Once rung, this bell cannot be unrung. The pointless damage will be irrebersible.
Gelding makes NO SENSE. Not even taking into account the serious behavioral changes this would create; this cruel and unjustifiable action will have NO IMPACT on population growth. Mares would simply be bred by other stallions, in a severely diminished gene pool.
Having observed Ely BLM's methods for some years, I have no confidence in their ability to be selective about what animals would be cut. From what I have seen, it is all about NUMBERS, and the out-of-control contractor runs the show.
Arla M. Ruggled –
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Yes, I don't understand why the method used in Assateague can't be used. I'm not totally sure if it's the Maryland or Virginia side which does it but believe it's the MD side which carefully monitors and controls how many ponies they will allow re-produce but it does the trick, they have controlled their population effectively. Why can't a safe contraceptive be used as it is on Assateague, the model has already proven effective.
Alexandra Nicole –
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Agreed! The technology exists. The commitment of the public exists. Advocacy groups have been documenting and photographing wild herds for years. The proliferation of photography has created the capacity to manage most herds at a grassroots level. AND, the internet has produced the capability of networking to cover MOST areas.
BLM needs to get off their high horses; stop condescending to those of us who spend more time among the mustangs - non-invasively - than they, or ranchers do. Helicopter roundups are not necessary.
Arla M. Ruggles –
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I agree. How can abuse be humane? What they do is cruel and uncalled for. These mustangs are suppose to be protected by the BLM. I have yet to see any protection or care whatsoever.
Robin Nischan –
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