ADRIAN FLORIDO, HOST:
Secretary of State Marco Rubio tried to both reassure and warn NATO allies in Sweden yesterday after confusion around U.S. troop deployment in Europe grew at a summit. President Trump has repeatedly expressed frustration that members of the trans-Atlantic defense alliance have not been supportive enough of the war in Iran. Earlier this month, Trump said the U.S. would withdraw 5,000 troops from Germany and announced a drawdown in Poland. But then an abrupt U-turn with an announcement late Thursday that the U.S. will now send additional troops to Poland. Still, Secretary Rubio signaled a plan for a reduced U.S. role in NATO.
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MARCO RUBIO: I think it's well understood in the alliance that the United States troop presence in Europe is going to be adjusted. That work was already ongoing.
FLORIDO: To make sense of some of these mixed signals from the U.S., we're joined now by Kristine Berzina. She's a senior fellow at the nonpartisan German Marshall fund think tank, where she focuses on U.S. defense and trans-Atlantic security. Miss Berzina, welcome to the program.
KRISTINE BERZINA: Thank you for having me on.
FLORIDO: What do you make of Secretary Rubio's statements and the mixed messages from the Trump administration about U.S. commitments to NATO?
BERZINA: Secretary Rubio's statements at the ministerial meeting in Sweden continued this Trump administration's vacillating approach to allies. The interesting question is not just what is Trump's attitude towards NATO or Europe, but how this administration sees individual allies. Will friendlier countries to this administration receive preferential treatment, and will those countries who are speaking out against U.S. operations in Iran, such as Germany recently, bear the brunt of Trump's displeasure?
FLORIDO: Aside from fewer troops potentially stationed in Europe, how else is the U.S. disengaging or signaling it's going to be limiting its role within NATO?
BERZINA: NATO is both a military alliance as well as a political one. If the United States pulls back its political leadership role, if it's less engaged in NATO discussions, if it's less interested in sharing its really exquisite military capabilities with allies, there will be really big gaps to fill. And the political question, I think, is harder to solve. The United States has been able to often bring consensus between all of NATO members, overcome internal squabbling between European voices. And without that U.S. leadership role, it's going to be less clear, well, who's in charge or who's the deciding voice, and the political dynamics between the allies are going to have to shift.
FLORIDO: Well, there was this moment yesterday when Secretary of State Rubio expressed President Trump's feelings toward some NATO countries. Let's take a listen.
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RUBIO: The president's views - frankly, disappointment at some of our NATO allies and their response to our operations in the Middle East.
FLORIDO: Kristine Berzina, is the Iran conflict proving to be a turning point where the U.S. shifts from being NATO's leader, the way that you're describing that it has been?
BERZINA: The Iran war is showing cleavages in the alliance more than any conflict has thus far. In 2026, European leaders have decided that they can and should speak out on issues that they feel very differently about than the United States. The Europeans have changed their course, and this is providing an opportunity for Americans and the Trump leadership to say and have excuses for potentially speeding up their withdrawal from Europe. The Iran war is hastening a transition that the U.S. has announced would already happen.
FLORIDO: Kristine Berzina is a senior fellow at the German Marshall Fund, where she focuses on U.S. defense and trans-Atlantic security. Kristine Berzina, thanks for joining us.
BERZINA: Thank you so much. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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